Jump to content
Product Design Forums

Treasurebox
Sign in to follow this  
roelontwerpt

Skimmer Ground Effect Plane

Recommended Posts

Here a update, after a long time..

I've been in contact with different experts and the design has been improved on aero- and hydro-dynamics. The most important improvement is that on the manufacturability. It now uses a single engine and more stock parts can be used. The outer part of the wings are detachable for easy transport. The craft is still steered by shifting your body weight and moving the tail flaps.

 

post-1434-1233688320.jpg

post-1434-1233688331.jpg

post-1434-1233688341.jpg

post-1434-1233688349.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest csven

What airfoil shapes are you using?

 

Where are the control surfaces?

 

Why are transitions so sharp/discontinuous?

 

Why is there a grill in front of the ducted fan?

 

I'm not seeing the manufacturability improvements. Do you have an exploded view?

 

Where do you think the cg is located?

 

How are the control systems operated? Can you explain how a person uses this?

 

-

 

Though it's a nice start, from the looks of it I'd say you're far from finished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

although it is great to see you have been consulting professionals to iron out the manufacturing and dynamics issues related to this, it seems to have lost its sleekness somewhere along the way . . . it seems to be becoming much more of an "engineered" thing rather than a beautifully design craft

 

i think this has a lot of potential but first of all you really need to add just a bit a thickness to your surfaces . . . what appears to only be about .25" thick wall thicknesses really take away from its realism

 

I think if you could incorporate a bit more of the aesthetics of the first one and combine it with the second one then you'd have a winner

 

just make sure to give it a really attractive "face" to help give the front a bit more or a sporty look (look at the surfaceing on seadoo's and boats for inspiration) because right now its still looks a bit like and engineering prototype rather than a production ready design

 

all in all an awesome design though! I would really like to see something like this in production

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest csven

Speaking from the aerospace engineering perspective, the lack of "sleekness" has nothing to do with the manufacturing and aerodynamics requirements, afaic. In fact, if it were more efficiently engineered, it'd be more aesthetically pleasing, imo (e.g. the wing-to-fuselage connection would be an integrated, smooth form instead of an abrupt, drag-inducing intersection).

 

Let's not blame engineering for industrial design problems.

 

I'd like to see the sketches (hand-drawn or Wacom) which preceded this CG model to see where exactly the problem lies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for your reactions

 

Airfoil design of ground effect planes is not really like normal planes, for who is interested, lots of info about wig technology can be found here: http://www.se-technology.com/wig/index.php

The 2 horizontal tail sections are used for steering and controlling, together with shifting your weigh from let to right.

I agree, the transitions are a bit sharp. The design is something that definitely needs finetuning.

The grill is a safety feature to prevent limbs and hands from beeing chopped to pieces by the fan behind it.

Manufacuring improvement is that now there is only 1 fan and engine, that are directly mounted to each other. These components are placed in line under the pilot and easy reachable for for assembly and maintanence.

The CG is a bit in front of the pilot, a prototype could learn more about the correct aerodynamic layout.

The controls are steering and leaning for left and right turn, a throttle mounted on the steer for accellerating, and leaning front and back to go up and down when in flight.

 

I agree, the first design looks better, for this design, I've put more effort in engineering than in designing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest csven
thanks for your reactions

 

Airfoil design of ground effect planes is not really like normal planes, for who is interested, lots of info about wig technology can be found here: http://www.se-technology.com/wig/index.php

But which ones are you using for this model?

 

The 2 horizontal tail sections are used for steering and controlling, together with shifting your weigh from let to right.
So no control surfaces on the major lift surface? no wing-warping technology even? And how did you size the surfaces, including those on the tail; any simple moment of rotation work?

 

The controls are steering and leaning for left and right turn, a throttle mounted on the steer for accellerating, and leaning front and back to go up and down when in flight.
"leaning front and back to go up and down when in flight" does what, exactly?

 

The grill is a safety feature to prevent limbs and hands from beeing chopped to pieces by the fan behind it.
Sorry I wasn't clear. That much I figured. What struck me is that it looks like more than a wire screen. It looks to me like a car's grill; molded plastic or something. Maybe it's just the color that makes it seem more significant to me.

 

Manufacturing improvement is that now there is only 1 fan and engine, that are directly mounted to each other. These components are placed in line under the pilot and easy reachable for for assembly and maintanence.
That's more than just manufacturing. Those changes affect everything; from the location of the cg and the resulting effects on the aerodynamics to the human factors issues involved after manufacturing is complete. Not a complaint; but I don't see manufacturing-specific issues which were improved (e.g. a change from rivets to bonding). Would still like to see an exploded view and any concept sketches that led to this solution.

 

The CG is a bit in front of the pilot, a prototype could learn more about the correct aerodynamic layout.
You don't need a prototype. Do you have a free-body diagram? Can you post it if you do? Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ekove

Sweet! but one thing keeps drawing my attention, the legs placement looks unnatural and absolutely not comfortable. And if the vehicle bounces, it's gonna be quite painful for male drivers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wing shape and size is determined mainly by looking at comparable aircraft like:

http://dynlab.mpe.nus.edu.sg/mpelsb/aeg/wigid/index.html

http://www.ghdstudios.com/radacraft/rcraft.html

http://www.se-technology.com/wig/html/main...=0&craft=45

 

the skimmer is designed to be a type B wig:

WIG boat with the capability to temporarily increase its flying height beyond the extent of ground effect. It cannot maintain flight without ground effect, kinetic energy (speed) is converted into potential energy (height).

Moving your weight backwards will move the cg backwards. The lift will increase and the flight height will temporarily be increased.

 

Maybe manufacturing is not the right term. What I ment to say was that the whole concept makes much more sense now. I'll try to upload more pics and info later.

 

thanks for all the feedback, its really helpfull!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest csven
Moving your weight backwards will move the cg backwards. The lift will increase and the flight height will temporarily be increased.

I'd be hesitant to rely on this minor shift in body weight. The range of motion is severely limited, the affect is inherently variable based on an individual's weight/body type, and in certain weather/wave conditions body control might be problematic. That's a lot of variables for something so important to flight control.

 

The other WIG craft seem to mostly rely on some fairly significant horizontal tails to provide the necessary moment of rotation about the CG. Since Moment = Force x Distance, and since the rider seems to be sitting almost on top of the CG (i.e. distance is almost zero), the shift in body mass seems even more inconsequential.

 

There's another issue in that force from a shifting body mass - since it doesn't appear to be strapped down to the craft itself - is variable based on the motion of the aircraft. In other words, with Force = Mass x Acceleration, if the body mass shifts from position P1 (basically at the CG) to P2, the actual Force at P2 varies based on the vertical component of the acceleration of the craft. If it is accelerating upward at that moment (plane hits a wave/bump) then the acceleration is higher and the resulting Force@P2 is higher, meaning that the Moment@P2 is higher. If the plane goes into a trough and is accelerating downward, the resulting Force@P2 is lower, leading to a lower Moment@P2.

 

Consequently, a person might shift their body weight backward and experience a wide range of reactions from the craft, making it a trickier control situation.

 

I'd be curious if there are other craft using this method.

 

btw, fun links. Thanks for posting them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest dv8mtsp

Very cool idea! I love the concept. I have a few suggestions. You have the occupants legs in the thrust area behind the engine. I assume this is a ducted fan and not a jet. In which case not ideal but probabaly ok. You may want to look up canard wings.That would make this concept more doable. Based on your vectored downward thrust and you airfoilshape similar to a flaps down wing you would have a serious nose down flying aircraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.