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Guest Dong

How about "copied" design in designer's mind?

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Guest Dong

Sometime, someone like us, designers, will be crazy if we designed something and launch it ..then later (maybe 1-2 months) they can see something maybe same or very similar.... can call it "copied"..it's repeatly making without license ....or Is it "re-design"?!? :)

 

It's a big issue now about "copied", many companies or many people call China is the biggest country to copy. But I think it's not true all.. :)

 

A lot of Chinese designer and also Asian can have thier own original design. If that is Form-designing.. it's easy to think out. But function is another thing..

 

I believe that sometime many designers can think same thing in the same time, maybe designers in Peru, China and US think same thing ....but!! you think?? who can make it possible first?!?! .. of course ..US first then China and the last Peru (for example..sorry) :)

 

Who can know where the first place it came from..?!?

 

I think in the world of creativity also the world, nothing is new. Nothing is real innovation..

 

Everything is developed from others.. but maybe in the different thinking way.-that call "Coherancy-thinking" (like Newton saw apple and thought about gravity theory)

 

So how can call it is "copied" or "original"??

 

WHat do you think? :)

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Hm, I always look at it from the angle of music.

Though a lot of songs sound the same, most of them are new songs that you haven't heard before. Because they sound a lot like an other song, you could say it was inspired by that song or maybe the style was influenced somehow.

I think this is the case for most new songs, we all have our favorite idols that we are influenced by.

Sometimes however something completely new is introduced, for example when Elvis started with his rock and roll.. A completely new style, something we have never heard before.

 

I think for product design the same can be said. Of course most new products will be somehow recognisable (people must be able to use them after all) but that doesn't mean you can't invent something completely new (for example the Dyson vacuum cleaner).

 

Of course designers can think of something at the same time, think about the bookpress technology, a Dutch guy and a German guy thought of it at about the same time in history, completely unaware of eachothers inventions.

 

Before you can accuse a nation of copying something, I think the design has to be well known by a lot of designers. And in some ways I think copying is not all that bad. Think of Japan, when they started to industrialise, they started by copying American and European designs, trying to improve them at the same time. They were very successful with this strategy, and I think nowadays you can even European and American companies copying from Japanese design.

 

I think China is now at the same point as Japan was a few decades ago. The industry is really starting to grow and copies are indeed being made (Honda is currently in a big lawsuit against a chinese company for copying one of their designs). I don't think it is strange that this is happening. The industry in China is still growing and once the market there is more mature I think we will see more and more original designs coming from China.

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Guest Dong

I agreed with you that something or environment influence them somehow to make a new thing.

 

But in the case of Elvis or Publishing technology, I think nobody know the truth what came or influence them.

 

Like nobody know "kiwi fruit" came from China, not new zealand. (chinese goosebeery)

Frank Lloyd Wright may get inspiration from Japan traditional life style (house).. or publushing came from Chinese publishing when Marcopolo came back to Europe....

 

But no need to find this..

(SO.. how can call it --redesign,copied,or innovation)

 

I think these cases can not call "copied" it can call "innovation" "redesign" or "invent" but we just dont know how they get the idea....

 

I dont know much about western philosophy (like plato) that teach us about wisdom(intellect) can't come from outside (teaching,watching,studying,experience...etc) but from inside..

But from eastern philosophy, we think everything is related, nothing can't happened by itself. (Something happen, another thing have to pass away.) (-bhuddha teaching) --(this one I m also confused because it's similar to Einstien theory of relationship) it's like the wheel.

 

sorry I am so far from topic..

 

I mean anyway when the new thing happen and we dont know it s related from what ...so this case we can call it "innovation-invent"

 

But when we know it's root ..so then we call it "developed idea" "re-creation" ..like this? :rolleyes:

 

umm.. and about usa-europe-japan-china.. I also agreed with you.. that japanese began from copying and they also developed their own way..

 

It's an economics theory that people have to find new better thing because the all thing we use has life cycle. You can not stand on the same position (all the time) that another one can come to get it with better condition (cheaper production)

 

It's good chance for big country to do this way (copy and then develop) but how about small country like South-east asia.. we are in between China and europe.. cant copy (because can not be much cheaper than China and also not so developed design and technology like Europe..

 

We also can not sell our life-style or identity like China ..it's very strong trend.

 

So.. how should the SE-asian design do for designing? B)

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Guest Michael Boyle

I can sum it up in a quote from the great Dennis Miller.

"There are 6 billion people in this world. So even if you are a One in a million kind of guy, There are still 6000 other people just like you."

 

I have been living by that quote for a while now. And it pushes me, to get things done. If you have an idea and you have been farting around with it for some time. Working on it here and there every now and then. one of those other 6000 people is not doing that and they have the same exact idea. And they are going to do it and get all the glory.

This recently happened to me. I had an idea for a shopping assistant. This would be set into a shopping cart and it would tell you where things are in the store, it would allow you to upload your shopping list from home over the internet, and many other functions.

To my surprise about three weeks ago, I see the same exact thing on the Today show. They were claiming what a God send this idea was. It was really upsetting and encouraging at the same time. I did lose the idea to someone else, but I now know I am not a far out designer with crazy ideas. They are sensible and well thought out as proven by the designer from IBm that invented my idea.

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Hah yeah, that's just a little bit worse than having somebody telling you a great idea and then thinking 'crap, why didn't I think of that'..

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Guest Dong

umm... yah I also surprised sometime that my idea sold out before but nobody buy it and later somebody make it again and ahh.. he got a prize..! ahh!

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Guest 0-maze-inc

Ideas, like any comodity, are attributed to the one who can sell them. If you had a million lemons but couldn't make lemonade, and gave them away so they wouldn't go bad, someone would figgure out how to make lemonade from them and make a windfall. You could be angry about the money you didn't get, or relieved that someone stopped them from rotting.

If you concieve of an idea, only one, then it becomes precious, your shot to fame and fortune. If a river of ideas flows, and some get used by others, then you have lost little. The one who has the least is the most protective of what he has.

 

The thing I find most offensive is that some do not want to give some credit, even a drop to the people who "influenced" their thought, in fact many go so far as to discredit the originator of the original idea to make themselves that much more fantastic to others. It is a sad vanity that makes sharing less likely, the dog eat dog mentality of winners and losers.

 

I also find blatent copying of intellectual property (software, music, movies etc) by the chineese and third world countries (pharmacuticals in the mid-east and mexico for example) to be a blatent disreguard of law both international and here in the states. I think if the field was more level by the use of international patent agreements, along with respect for the creators of property, there would be less fear and again more sharing of information.

 

We find ourselves in a global economy, and really we are all neighbors no matter where we are. If we treated others like we would like to be treated, then we might be able to create a world of co-operation, and at least the impression of fairness.

 

I think that the far east should be able to create it's own "culture" which uses information that is not available to westerners, and develop thier own identity which then could be sold as a comodity, just as black culture has been sold for decades (by whites such as elvis) here in the united states. The originators of rock music were almost assuredly black, but their exploitation was due to prejudice here. It is good to see that african americans are getting their due, even if it is with an unfortunate message of de-evolution and hatred.

 

Everyone who creates draws on some interest, whether it is in forign lands, cultures, space aliens, history, or whatever. Drawing on the past has never been out of bounds. Drawing on contemporary work (something seen in a school, or newly created at some one's studio or manufacturing plant) seems forbidden by some unwritten rule. Once an idea is old (over a year or two) then it seems fair game for exploitation, like the lemons rotting. Things created without permission or acknowledgement in a shorter time frame seems much more like plagurism, which we all should abhor.

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Guest Dong

In fact, almost asian people believe the westerner is better than ourselves in all the ways, they can control thingsand also us. Some nations have not so strong culture like S E asia it is weak culture. The weak culture is mixed by many cultures, follow the strongest culture at that time.

 

Long time ago from Indain (Hindu and Bhuddist), Chinese, western colonization.

 

It made the "me too" culture and "follower" culture. Cant find the essense of our own culture.

 

We have no clear standpoint to attract people. And everyday we are losing our life style.

 

We jumped from classic age to modern age without reneissance. Nobody learn deeply or develop our own style. Just bollow the good thing from the other cultures.

 

That is a big problem for us. :lol:

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Guest gmawtus

Design is weird, but its a lot like everything else. it has its fashions, its current issues and its trends in thinking. look at the student output from things like new designers and coreflot. the same issues addressed in different ways. similar themes because they are relevant to today's society. Design solves problems and there are always going to be hot themes. subsequently there are always going to be duplications of entirely original ideas.

 

secondly, our minds are the filled with the accumulated thoughts and influences of others. that is how we learn. in order to use this knowledge we have to acquire it from someone else. therefore are any of our ideas really our own? of course they are.

 

If you want a musical analogy, look at blues. for years everyone covered each other's music and ideas spread and developed. there was huge diversity and creativity. then copyright law got a bit stupid. there's nothing wrong with saying 'i was influenced by x and y and z. this openness shows others where you're coming from.

 

to conclude: there's only two ways to have completely original ideas...

1. be creative in the problems you wish to solve as much as in how you want to solve them. in this way you can make sure that everyone else isn't tackling the same issue and you halve your competition.

2. blend together so many influences that nobody can identify one person's work in your own.

 

both have advantages and disadvantages. obviously people respond better to designs tackling topical issues and if you tackle abstract issues you become marginalised. tackling issues that may become topical in the future - risky but you'll be ahead of the game if you make a good call.

blending influences - we all do it. if you overcook it you'll end up with post-modernism and that's just horrible. you'll lack your own identity and style. take your influences not just from design, but nature, architecture, poetry, crafts. all is creative thinking and all have something to teach us.

 

everybody is trying to be original. be different to them.

 

G

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Guest manglii

wat dong said is kinda starightforward n blunt, but i couldnt agree more... but its not tat asian designer like to copy u see... its in fact tat the industry itself doesnt believe in designers - the one who suppose to generate ideas...

 

at the same time, designers at this age, i personally think, its hard to be totally original, neither other things... everything is kinda some silhoutte of something else...

 

wat i think is tat designers hav to b united themselves, they shudnt b afraid tat their ideas wud b stolen... (coz maybe ur design existed somewhere else ad, hahha!) designers shud b more interactive with the end users as well, n even i believe tat designers shud speak out wats inside their minds... which asian designers r lackin... its partially of their educational background...

 

well, as a designer tat do things more like draftman - me, i believe tat the we shudnt be complainin but be more proactive... then only we can BRING ourselves to the world...

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i completely agree with manglii

wat i think is tat designers hav to b united themselves, they shudnt b afraid tat their ideas wud b stolen...

 

thats why we set up this forum, to improve design all over the world

i am not telling that design is worse now :ph34r:

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Guest Dong

Yaah.. we are good friends and also competitors (I feel sad to say this but true!) in the same time. Nobody wants to be worse than the others. We are individual and also want our own society.

 

News and forum make us updated and excite all the time to make better thing when we saw the others succeed.

 

I am afraid just somebody think to compete or get money too much and dont care how can make the success on product (design). But good news is those people almost are not designer, they are some kind of factories. :ph34r:

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Guest 0-maze-inc

I guess what I'm getting at is that in the scientific world work that builds on someone else's is attributed to the person on which the work is built, or influenced by. I think that if design had the same sort of integrity, that everyone would feel much more free to share, as in the end their thought, ( and thus worth) could increase. let's face it we're all in this for the money.

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