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Guest jondai

Barcelona- Product Design Office

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Guest jondai

www.daifukudesigns.com

jonathan@daifukudesigns.com

 

For type of work we do, please visit out daifukudesigns web site.

Type of work you would do: mainly technical development and rendering for presentations.

Sunny office in uptown Barcelona. 5 computers with large CRT screens and 3 printers.

near Tibidabo and Vallcarca metro stops.

No smoking in the office.

 

Its important that your internship here be a minimum of 5 months; 6 is better.

 

In terms of salary, we offer a symbolic amount, Two hundred Euros a month, which covers public transport here and home and your noon sandwich. Think this over carefully.

 

I think its also very important to stress that about half our work here is interior design, for which we use AUTOCAD , and SW for 3 D product work. Almost as important: 3 D Studio. Interesting to know but not so important: photoshop, freehand, flash, dreamweaver, as well as working with real 3 D models.

 

At a difference with schools, we do not often have the privilege of working from beginning to end of a given project non-stop. According to urgencies, and the clients response, we work on portions of different projects for a given time, and sort of move everything along in the right direction until completion.

You have to be somewhat autonomous. I have lots of meetings or visits to construction sites, during the week; I also teach every Monday, So there are hours where you will be alone, and hopefully be resourceful and responsible with the projects we are working on.

 

In terms of lodging, it’s not too cheap in Barcelona. (see www.loquo.com) Usually students look up rooms on university bulletin boards, (you can limit this to design schools if you like) or in Anuntis, a local magazine. Its not too important that you be near the office, but its convenient if you are located close to a direct subway line, either the U7 (Tibidabo stop ) or the Green line (Vallcarca stop)

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Guest A-train

I am really sorry, I am looking for a place to work in Barcelona but slave times are over. 200 euro a month is a joke, even for an internship. I can understand internships were you visit/work in a company during your education as a part of it but most interns try to break even and just go for some extra experience without having to get a bank loan.

 

I think as a student or starter you deserve some respect.

 

A.

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Guest bgp3te

thats about £150 a month? Most placements in the Uk are offering at least £16,000 a year, sounds great but I think A-Train has a point

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Guest emr
thats about £150 a month? Most placements in the Uk are offering at least £16,000 a year, sounds great but I think A-Train has a point

 

hey, im from australia but keen on an internship in the UK. 16, 000 isnt bad, esp since most companies i know dont pay at all in oz. are there any good web sites with a list of design companies in the UK, or a list that u have pls mate?

cheers john

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Guest sketch
Most placements in the Uk are offering at least £16,000 a year

 

Thats because their is a National Minium Wage Act on any contractual employment in which you recieve money for - including paid voluntery work, studentships, paid work-experiece and internships within the UK

 

The only time when you don't receive the Minimum Wage is if you are volunteering agreed for free - or working in places like Barcelona where such an act does not exist (i think)

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Guest toodef1

Ok - two cents time, because its an issue close to the ticker at the moment. I fully hole heartedly agree with you A-Train - 200E is total b u l l s h i t - I mean come on. I'm well versed in the nature of internships, but there is a degree of responsibilty from the employer. Contrary to common capitalistic thought - PEOPLE actually have to LIVE, couple this with the cost of eductation, let alone flights . . . a dose of reality wouldn't go a miss here. I'd be interested to see how well your intern copes on a sandwich and coffee a day. Oh well - you get what you pay for.

 

Also - what intern knows, Solidworks, Max, & Autocad - ? I mean honestly.

 

 

Good luck. . . .

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Guest Mikeinthejungle

I think to suggest that most companies will pay £16,000 for a placement student is not true, many of the top companies and consultancies pay very little or nothing bacause there is a perceived added value in the placement experience they can provide.

 

The national mimimum wage does not apply to placements as they are part of an educational course and are a learning experience as much as they are a form of employment.

 

Universities can get EU funding for students doing placements abroad. Very few European design companies pay enough to support a student while on their placement so this funding is vital to make it economically viable. I find it is a bigger problem with companies based in London because there is no funding available and the cost of living is far higher.

 

It does frustrate me that some companies are not willing to pay, but if it is the choice between advertising an unpaid position or no position at all I think students benefit from the wider scope of potential options that arise than if the minimum wage was enforced in this area.

 

A placement student is not the finished article and hopefully will receive training and support from design professionals while on placement, the value of this cannot be discounted. If a design professional spends a day assisting you or teaching you to use some software that could easily be seen as a 500-750 labour cost for the company to absorb, to pay the student full whack as well will not be viable to many smaller companies.

 

I think pay is only one of the issues that should be taken into account when evaluating a placement opportunity, if funding is available from elsewhere what the company pays becomes less important.

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Guest toodef1

Mike - Fantastic reply, and welcome to the forum. I fully agree with all your points, and further more the finished graduated student is far from the finished article. . . I was offered an internship at Art Lebedev, but it was just completly not unviable to attend.

 

Where I studied in New Zealand - we have not even an inkling of placements, or internships, its just not part of our course - which, now being out in industry I've found to be quite a disadvantage. Gotta take what you can get.

 

I'm from the school of thought that people should be treated as such, regardless of the fact if they are students or not, people still need to be treated with respect and be able to live. I know of several advertising graduate friends who thought it was the be all and end all to go and work for the 'big' hot shot advertising firms in Wellington, NZ - they got paid like $100 NZ a week, (do the conversion www.xe.com) for like 60 hour weeks, busting there balls.

 

Another pair were aligned with another firm who paid them NOTHING to work for them for 12 weeks, took their work and sent them on their way.

 

I think it's utter b u l l s h i t - and I refuse to do it, because I didn't bust my ass for 5 years with a 50K student loan in tow to work for free, I've got more personal respect than that.

 

. . .Sorry for Hijacking your post - perhaps I should move them and start a new !

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Guest Mikeinthejungle

I agree with you too and in a lot of cases companies can be seen to be taking the piss, many small agencies would not be financially viable without this source of labour.

 

On the otherhand we have had students who have been sent on solid works courses, flown to exhibitions and supported to do their own projects using the companies equipment and resources. I think this is a good trade off but obviously depends on the students (or parents ability) to support themselves. We have found that companies that are paying and offering a good experience are being flooded with applications and those so called 'hotshot' companies are finding applications dropping as students are no longer willing to work for free. They often ask why the applications have dropped and are told ' because you are not paying, you are based in central london and students are up to their eyeballs in debt', in my experience they are likely to cast their net wider rather than come up with a salary. In the UK the addition of top up fees has meant an increased dept burden and therefore a lesser ability and willingness to take unpaid work experience.

 

There are diffrent cultures accross different industries. Fashion is notoriosly bad, they often work students into the ground for no pay often in Central London knowing that without an industry name on the students Cv they are not going to get very far. Construction placements on the otherhand pay £20,000 plus and support students financially through their final year, supply and demand plays a big part.

 

Untill those hotshot companies stop getting top students for nothing they will not throw money at a problem that does not exist in their eyes. It is frustrating, many London design agancies want students who live near london (can live at home) so they do not have to pay, it certainly creates inequality.

 

Unfortunately some of the best placements are unpaid and will remain so for the forseeable future.

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Guest A-train

Ok. cause every one seems to wright some extra information I will make some more comments. First of all, there are 3 different kind of internships.

 

1. School internships, (for example, Delft) during your education as a part of it you are a kind of visitor in a design office with limited responsibility. There is no pay involved because you don't get payed for going to school either (except for Norwegian an Danish people I think)

 

2. Resume internships: high ranked offices that can afford ripping students of because the answer and demand is just unequal. For example Marc Newson, Karim Rashid, ... Big name offices that look very very good on your resume. You have to sacrifice something to get those name on your resume ... money, but it makes it up later.

 

3. Normal internships: Students get payed according to their skills and responsibility with in account some learning money. If you are good, they will hire you directly, you are very very cheap labor force for a design offices. If you can do the same job as a junior in the office they will make money on you. specially in the US. because you are new and fresh it revitalizes the office a bit and the first week you are doomed to clean the workshop any how. Different countries different rules. In Germany Austria, pay is just enough to survive and that is in my eyes a minimum. the US and Scandinavia pay very well. but you gotta be worth it. other countries I dont have experience

 

 

All other internships where there is no or to less pay in a medium design office is just slave work.

 

A student who's aim is to go for an internship should always know he or she is a valuable asset to the company otherwise you should even apply, they will take somebody else. for that matter you are worth something to the company and should sell yourself cheap.

 

good luck in the future.

 

A-train

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Guest TcUK

I have just come back to Brunel from my placement and to say 16k is average is way above the mark. From everyone I know on placement the average was little over 10k in London. Its true to say that most students are doing the same projects as full time professionals who get paid three times as much. But back to the 200E ... come on not even accomodation?

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Guest TimHolley

My two cents...

 

I'm currently interning in the US as part of my industrial experience year at Brunel University. The pay is very reasonable, and, asides from the usual intern responsibilities such as cleaning the workshop and stocking the fridge I have gained a large amount of experience. From what I have heard generally US-based internships pay more but the company also expects more...longer hours, more responsiblity, high level of work expected (none of which are a bad thing mind you).

 

Germany, Austria on the other hand pay very minimal amounts, €400 is a general estimate. This salary means that unless you live in the area, have another job (e.g. bar work, weekend work) or are financed by an outside source (parents, loans, grants) these are unviable. Gaining industrial experience is an important, if not integral, part of developing as a designer, but you should still be able to survive/have a reasonable standard of living while doing an internship.

 

I think this problem of ridiculously underpaid internships is largely due to the ever increasing number of young designers in relation to the number of jobs. Without an internship to your name it will be more difficult to find employment. If the only internships available pay very little then at some point you have to make the choice...take the plunge and go with a low-paid internship that will hopefully increase your 'employablitly' or, go your own way and put your efforts into developing your own skills and projects in order to strengthen your portfolio.

 

I have no doubt that diafukudesigns will find an intern, even when offering such low pay, as there are many people who are just dying to gain experience and have an industrial name on their CV. Sad, but true.

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Guest hairius28

after finishing university (coventry-UK) in 2005, i went to the netherlands for 5 months to do an internship with a small (2 person) product design consultancy. i got paid about 300 euros a month, normally they would pay only 250 as their normal students were from dutch universitys and still livin at home, but because i was coming over from england and needing to rent accomodation they increased it slightly.

 

of course this was still not enough to survive on, but the professional experience i got was worth the extra debt. remember, an internship isnt a job, its extra training, and if you can get it, it will benefit you incredibly. theres some things university just cant teach you. if i hadnt done that internship, i doubt id now have a reasonably-paid design job.

 

ps for any dutch students looking for an internship the company i was with was Ontwerpstudio Kommer Kors, i can thoroughly recommend working for them!

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Guest bgp3te

I'm all for the benefit of experience, I think that in the UK there is a real problem with student debt, I don't know what this is like in pther countries, but atm I'm about £12000 in debt after two years of higher education.

 

It's hard with that kind of issue to take a job which pays only 170 odd a month, but I totally agree on the educational factor. I mean I'd work for free if seymour powel asked me on an internship!

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Guest toodef1

Im all for the benefit of exp too. My student Loan stands @ $50,000 . . . after 5 years of study. It's not particulary encouraging to then find I have to work for free or peanuts just to do some ID stuff, and work another job to keep the ID gig happening. Cruel realitys . . .

 

hayden

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