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Guest Michael Boyle

perhaps a design consortium is in order

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Guest Michael Boyle

After reading all the replies about working, I have come to realize. There is a lot of competition out there. And it would seem even more, the 64 members of this forum are all competing for the same jobs.

What would it take to get all of us working together( short of a miracle).

The major factors i have trouble with in finding work are

#1 Getting Past the Secretary- do these people really know what they are talking about. These people answering the phone never seem to really know what to tell you.

 

#2 Voicemail- has anyone ever left a message and forgot your own name. it has happened to me. Another foiled attmept at leaving a message was a time i left a message and messed it up so i just hung up or so i thought. and i began cussing myself out while the phone was still connected.

and another thing what is the use of voicemail if you are not going to check it. I thinkvoicemail is going to be the downfall of mankind.

 

#3 Unreturned calls - I know that the design firms are busy, but @#$@#$ at least a email saying we got your call or your resume and a thank you would be nice, instead of just leaving us hanging.

 

#4 email- how about returning an email once in a while. it is not hard to do.

 

well with all that said those are the problems i have. now to fix it what do we need to do as a consortium of designers. we start networking with each other.

as jobs come up in our lives that we know we cant do, but we know of 63 other designers that can do it we pass it on. that is where it begins.

I think this forum is great and has great possibility. as you may have noticed in all your searches for work, everyone wants someone with experience. How do you get the experience if you cant get the work. I think we can all work together and maybe make something happen for all of us, instead of competing against each other.

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That's a noble thought. I'm currently looking for a place to do my final uni project, so I can't say I'm busy jobhunting at the moment, but I must say it's very interesting.

 

Suppose we get something like this going, I think it's only fair to make this a members only forum section, only visible for those who post here.

We'll have to think about setting something like this up if there's enough support from others. We do have a job section here, but I think it's only fair to sign up in return.

 

Any thoughts from others?

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This is a very interesting thread....before setting up this forum, we thought about if this forum would really work for eachother. Cause we could be competitors for a job out there. I'm glad that Michael shares the same positive thoughts with us. Hope that all members do too ;)

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Guest wgc

I have had the same thoughts, especially when I saw this forum.

 

Why not try to help each other out? I've done as much for my classmates.

 

As for competition, well, the people doing the hiring should be the best judge of who should get the job- may the best person win. Many of us are indeed competing for the same jobs, but we all have different circumstances, interests, strengths, and weaknesses.

 

More interviews would be nice, no doubt!

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Yup sure would, well waikit is taking his summer vacation at the moment, when he's back we'll think about this, untill then, please let us know what you think about this and how we could implement this. Right now I'm thinking about a jobs section that can be seen from the main page, but the contents of which are hidden for members only (which I think would be a reasonable thing to ask for).

 

What I think would be THE way to use this subforum is that people not only have an overview of available (and filled) jobs, but also how the interviews went for some and if they got any tips for future interviews at that company. This way even people who are not yet looking for jobs (students) can learn from this and pro's can benefit from 'insider' tips.

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Guest JLdesign

I'd like to see a "networking forum":

 

By that I mean:

 

- People that are either currently employeed within a company or know friends or other well established contacts within other companies would simply make a post with the name of the company they have contacts with. For the sake of confidentiality no actual contacts would be listed with the post, just the name of the company.

 

- Anyone who would like to reach someone within a listed company would send a private message to the person who posted the thread about the company.

 

- The person divulging contact info would then ask the person requesting information to send them a resume and samples of work or link to an online portfolio (ex. coroflot). This information would then be passed onto their contact.

This way, nobody's name is put out in public, and if the contact likes what they see, then they will seek out the person that sent them a resume.

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I'd like to see a "networking forum":

 

By that I mean:

 

- People that are either currently employeed within a company or know friends or other well established contacts within other companies would simply make a post with the name of the company they have contacts with. For the sake of confidentiality no actual contacts would be listed with the post, just the name of the company.

 

- Anyone who would like to reach someone within a listed company would send a private message to the person who posted the thread about the company.

 

- The person divulging contact info would then ask the person requesting information to send them a resume and samples of work or link to an online portfolio (ex. coroflot). This information would then be passed onto their contact.

This way, nobody's name is put out in public, and if the contact likes what they see, then they will seek out the person that sent them a resume.

Yeah, I like this idea! The only downside is perhaps that those persons might not be all that happy that they are now being asked by people to look at portfolios and stuff. I'm still a student so I'll have to rely on the pro's here to tell if it's really a good idea or not, but so far I'm liking it!

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Guest Michael Boyle

i will agree with that. This is the kind of forward thinking we need. As i was just coming back from a meaningless application fillout session, i had a thought. If we could form some sort of national alliance to hire younger designers. If you look through the want ads, yahoo hot jobs, coroflot, IDSA and any other desinger job forum. you will find almost all the time they are asking for someone with 5 to ten years of experience. I realize why they do this, but it is really not a fair game. I have a $35,000 education, but I cant get an entry level job because they are hiring more experienced designers first for the beginner job.

If we could come up with some sort of national Designer Program to promote hiring Young Fresh Designers i really think alot could happen in the world of design.

 

our slogan - "An Education is a Terrible Thing to Waste" Hire the fresh guy

 

The new guys coming in, in my mind and having just looked at some of your portfolios, can smoke the older guys. They have lost their edge and just seem to design out of habit.

New designers will also push the older designers to do better work as well. Nobody wants to answer to a younger person so they will do better.

I think we can get the word out about New Designers, less experience doesnt make you a bad designer, i think it just makes you more aware and less burned out.

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Guest JLdesign

Renzsu,

 

I thought of that problem too, but I think if everyone understood that the person passing on the recommendation also had discretion on how often they did this, or even decided upon which ones to pass on based on the quality of the work it may be alright. If everyone understood that they may not receive a response or get through to the person, then it may be alright. I'm sure there are some professionals out there who would be willing to lend a hand.

 

Another thought is maybe a post should only be brought up if the contact has been asked before hand if they would be willing to receive emails from hopeful job candidates. Maybe we could even limit the post being up for a certain time limit, say during the time that a known position has been posted by the particular company

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Michael, I think that would be sweet, but perhaps something we need to save till we are a bit more well known in the design world. Maybe we can start it by having some kind of 'sticker' we can implement in our portfolio or business card.. something big like this requires a lot of thought though, to be honest at the moment our priorities are now to get the word out about this forum and build some credibility in the design world. That in itself is a pretty big task we have ahead of ourselves. I think by starting that networking subforum we can take a first step to improve finding a job.

JLdesign, good points.

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Guest antidesign

I don't think we should critising the old guys. Remember that mistakes are expensive in this business. Companies are obviously going to be looking for experience to reduce risk. Its a case of supply and demand. The onus must be on the student to find the real-life experience, which means allowing your talent to be exploited at first (that's the only currency we have). This education will be a $0 education (i.e. break even).

 

Unfortunately internships seem to just as hard to come by as full time positions at the moment.

 

As for the private jobs forum: A noble ideal but I imagine there will be more people looking than posting.

 

And i don't understand how you propose to leapfrog the recruiting systems of companies. What makes the people on the forum any different from anyone else? It takes a few minutes to sign on. What you are proposing is some kind of vetting system or a private club. Who's going to be the judge and jury? What's next special hand shakes?

 

I thought it was important to show the other point of view.

 

Long live Le révolution B).

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I don't think we should critising the old guys. Remember that mistakes are expensive in this business. Companies are obviously going to be looking for experience to reduce risk.

 

What makes the people on the forum any different from anyone else? It takes a few minutes to sign on. What you are proposing is some kind of vetting system or a private club. Who's going to be the judge and jury? What's next special hand shakes?

Hi, you are right on the old guys part, and I think we as school leaving designers can brag a bit as well when it comes to the work experience part.. I think things like projects done at uni with company guidance or sponsoring can count as work experience, same for internships or perhaps sidejobs you did like designing a webpage for somebody. Surely there must be companies employing school leaving students? If not, the design field would dry up within a decade..

 

About the private club thing, you're right that signing up only takes minutes, but it's absolutely free, no strings attached. Surely we can expect something back in return. More members signing up means more activity (even if only a few of those signing up would post).

I dunno, we could be absolutely wrong, but that doesn't mean we can't change things back right? If the system doesn't work, we can always remove it.

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Guest gilty

As a designer with just less than a decade of experience, I don't fit within the "old guys" or the "young guns" category (of which most people here seem to fit).

 

You DEFINETLY do not want to alienate the "old guys"; who do you think does the hiring?

And any "old" (read: experienced) designer worth his salt knows when it's time to bring in some new blood, but knows the new blood may have the ability to make a pretty picture, but has zero experience trying to get that pretty picture turned into a producable, martketable, within budget, successfull actual product and has no experience working within a professional atmosphere as part of a development team.

 

Michael stated "I have a $35,000 education, but I cant get an entry level job ..."

True, everyone pays for their schooling, but the old guys didn't get their education for free, then have a job handed to them. As I think about it, the competitiveness of the career does a lot to weed out those not willing (or able) to find a way. The people participating on this board are obviously burning to get into the field, which is what it takes.

 

My career was basically kickstarted by a summer internship during school, which ended up costing me money because of the low pay and long commute. But I learned more in that summer than in the previous 2 years of school. My first position out of school started as a short series of contract jobs for a small consulting firm, which eventually turned into a full time job for about a year before the company shut down. 6 months and a relocation later, I landed my current corporate gig.

 

This is NOT the path I imagined for myself pre-graduation, but it's been awesome. If you have a burning desire to be part of a kick ass consulting firm and can't find an employer, why not do it on your own in some fashion? I realize not everyone has the financial resources to start a business (wish I did...) But if you consider yourself a designer, "Design Yourself a Career" as my senior professor stated.

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Guest antidesign

The 'private club' comment was a hypothetic train of thought. It's what might happen if lots of people had easy access to send portfolio links to a company contact prompting another layer of selection by someone else. (am I making any sense here?)

 

The original idea is sound though, no matter what form it takes impoving the chances for young designers to find the right job is only a good thing.

 

I'm sure you'd also find that companies also find it hard to find the right designers (especially small ones)

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