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Guest wake1ghuth

Guns for Hire

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Guest wake1ghuth

Well if anyone wants to continue this discussion I thought I would at least put it out here.

 

I know many of us have already played out our thoughts In STX's Gunes Thread but,

 

Is it OK to Design and make movie props that look like real guns?

 

My answer is.... Hmmmm..... Thinking.......

 

YES! :rolleyes:

 

Lates,

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Guest Tony

Well if nobody would design props that look realistic enough, movie producers would resort to using the real thing.. Then the whole issue of "please don't smuggle live ammunition onto the set" kicks in :rolleyes:

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Guest feesta

I'm sorry. I'm a stubborn ass when I get riled up.....I guess it shows my true maturity level.

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Guest feesta

I don't think I have much more to add to the discussion.

 

I would however be completely against any government regulation of violence. I think it is an issue entertainers and entertainees will work out based on free market economics. I can choose where I want to put my money. I did pay to see Return of the King but I'll pass on seeing Blade 3.

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Guest desagree

i`m not sure about government regulation of guns. i think that we as designers are not the right ones to talk about this point.

instead, i would focus on wake1ghuth`s question on movie guns (even if to me there`s no difference to real guns)

 

i added the link of the image i created to explain my comment on stx`s design because i noticed that it didn`t work before-

 

beretta-evolution_02.jpg

 

did you know that neither the first nor the third are real guns? did you see it? (first: playstation lightgun third: airgun) where`s the difference to the second (real!) one? where`s the difference during design process?

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What about guns that work electrically and can only be fired by the owner of the gun? I heard that apparantly cop guns cause a lot of problems in the wrong hands (obviously), but an electric safety system which prevents other people than the owner to fire the gun could make things a bit safer. Just throwing stuff around for discussion :rolleyes:

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Guest wake1ghuth

If all guns needed a specific barcode to be placed over the trigger in order to be fired, and if only felony free / responsible people could get the barcode implant / specific only to guns that are registered to them???? That could cut down on stolen guns significantly! Good point!

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Guest desagree

i doubt, whether these barcodes would be a challenge to hackers - didn`t they already manage to hack the pentagon...?

at university i learned not to fight against consequences but (if possible) "cut the roots". if there is a connection between the use of guns on people and harm/death of people why not focussing on this point? but (again-see above) i didn`t want to stick to this discussion since (in my opinion) it is outside of our reference as designers. the main question for us is (as i already mentioned in the gunes thread) of ethical concerns. i personally understand my job as service provider: there is a certain task+briefing = problem to be solved. i put my efforts into the thinking of 1) solving a concrete problem 2) enhance a situation 3) make a statement concerning a contemporary or futuristic lifestyle/ethic. if you just care for 1) and 2) you wont find a reason against designing a nuclear weapon. it`s true that 3) is the less important part of the usual product design everyday life. it`s something like a supervisory body/inspectorate/watch dog in the background. typical "3)" question at the beginning of a design process: "does the world need this?" or: "where does this way/solution/philosophy lead to?"

then it comes to choices: you`ve seen the trend. you`ve analysed the trend.

and now you decide for or against it.

in german language there is a expression for this: "that`s the place where the dog was buried" :D means: crux/critical issue.

do you want to support the opinion that the use of guns is good? do you feel the need to improve a killing machine? are`nt there already enough guns? do you want to be killed by a gun that has earned a design prize? where is the border? if a gun is ok, is also a landmine ok? why (not)? a tank? a rocket? a torture instrument? should children be educated and alerted to guns by (good) design? do movies like matrix, robocop or james ryan condemn violence?

 

p.s.: i want to point out that i do not want to offend or condemn anybody! these are just a few questions a gun designer should consider...

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Very true.. there will always be guns though I think.. safety features and legislation will go a long way towards a less violent culture I think.

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Guest desagree

yes, right. but we can see it also in a positive way: many people dream of self realization in their jobs/lifes but i think that we as designers really have the privilege to change sth. in the world/ in our concrete environment- not only on the level of products but also in the minds of people. that`s good news, isn`t it? (of course it`s a great risk+responsibility, too...)

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Guest wake1ghuth

Desagree,

 

Very good points and I respect your philosophy. It stands at the root of a very large problem. Which is a great way to nip a problem in the bud.

 

But…

 

If guns and warheads could be erased from human history would humans cease to kill each other? I doubt it. But I agree with you in the fact that guns and warheads are significantly more efficient at killing than say a knife or spear. If guns did not exist I doubt that hate and war would cease to exist as well.

 

I make a living based on the right to use guns for sport! If you eliminate guns because of greed, hate, and war, you eliminate the right to use them for sport as well……

 

And yes I know how selfish that sounds. It sounds like I’m saying “I don’t care how many people get killed by guns as long as I can go out and shoot my two Deer every year.

 

If I could erase all guns and end hate and greed I would gladly give up hunting. I would probably even find it an even greater challenge to kill deer with a knife or a spear, but it won’t happen like that.

 

For this reason, I think designers need to see past the stark Black and White of “Gun…Bad…No Design Guns!†And look to the more grey area of “Guns can be bad so lets see what we can do to make them safer.â€Â

 

When I said, “guns can’t be erased from earth†You probably thought to your self, “Well with a mentality like that no wonder.â€Â

 

When you say, “No one can make a gun safe!†I say, “Well with a mentality like that no wonder!â€Â

 

This discussion is turning into a Catch 22.

 

I would gladly develop weaponry based on the highly selfish, very American idea, that killing animals is fun, and if the bad guys are gona have em so should the good guys. Team America, "F" Yeah!

 

Wow I know I’m opening my self up for some shots here so Take Aim… I can take it.

 

Lates,

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Guest desagree

(in order to prevent misunderstandings) let me say first that i respect your (and everyone else`s) position as well.

 

of course you are right by saying that killing/hate wont stop with the extinction of weapons. it`s in the nature of mankind to think of "aggressive protection". since early days weapons do exist and efforts have been put into their development.

we`ve seen in many historic examples that prohibition and/or separation dont work. to me thats not the right way to solve this problem. the solution is to change the attitude in the minds of people.

in the past a weapon was a necessary tool in everyday life- cavemen,hunters, pioneers couldn`t do without. this situation has changed, this argument doesn`t exist any longer

nowadays we don`t need guns any more. that`s the critical issue! if we can make people understand that there is no functional reason for weapons any longer, they would stop wanting and developing them! that`s the point where we come into the discussion. with our creativity we can help people to change their mind! no one of us would like to have a "life-standard" like 100 years ago, but when it comes to weapons some of us refer to those times- isn`t that strange? our mission as "brain of the public" puts us into the position+responsibility to select among possible ways and promote values/ethical rules. that`s why im against weapon design (even and especially movie props) because apart from concrete application/purpose it`s in any case the wrong educational direction! with our work we should promote/point at positive values and ways of problem solving!

 

i hope you get my point, my english is *§$/%("=

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