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Can Anyone Be Taught To Sketch In 3d?


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#1 Guest_amoncur_*

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 06:08 AM

I'm an engineer, and see the value in being able to sketch in 3D. It makes the product development process so much quicker if you can decouple design from CAD, and being able to sketch in 3D, I believe, does that. So here's my question to all you designers our there (both the ID guys and the engineers): do you think anyone can be taught to sketch in 3D? I'm not talking about an artist-level proficiency, but enough so that one could sketch out concepts in 3D before taking the time to do it in CAD. What do you think? Do you "need to be born with it"? Or is it a skill that can be learned in a reasonable amount of time (define that for yourself) by most people of reasonable skill (again, define that one for yourself)?

#2 advancedboy

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 09:15 AM

`You can blow out a candle, but you can`t blow out a fire, once the flame catches on, it gets higher and higher`( Peter Gabriel, `Biko`). You can study anything, but it is like throwing wood into fire, it can grow, if there is a flame. But the flame must come from within.

#3 Bwaugh

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:36 PM

Pure and simple, yes! The bigger question is can you see the item in your head before you draw it? Drawing in 3D can definitely be trained.

#4 Guest_Shift1313_*

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 04:01 PM

I dont have very good sketching skills but i do try to rough things out by hand. Most of the time i just layout things in cad and do several revisions. I think you can rough things out in cad very fast to get a feel for it then go back and start a detailed file. What kind of products are you talking about?

#5 Guest_amoncur_*

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 04:23 PM

I dont have very good sketching skills but i do try to rough things out by hand. Most of the time i just layout things in cad and do several revisions. I think you can rough things out in cad very fast to get a feel for it then go back and start a detailed file. What kind of products are you talking about?

Matt, this is just my point. It seems that's the way most engineers/designers do things. Rough it out in CAD and iterate until it's right. I know several ID guys who don't touch CAD until they have sketched out a concept it 3D and they are able to put a design together much faster because of it. For most people (assuming a basic level of sketch ability) sketching something will be quite a bit faster than modeling in 3D. So, if 3D sketching can be learned, I think it makes a lot of sense to put forth the time and effort to do so in order to speed up one's workflow. The big question is can 3D sketching be learned? My feeling is yes, and I just wanted to get the opinions of others.

#6 Guest_Shift1313_*

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 03:34 AM

I dont have very good sketching skills but i do try to rough things out by hand. Most of the time i just layout things in cad and do several revisions. I think you can rough things out in cad very fast to get a feel for it then go back and start a detailed file. What kind of products are you talking about?

Matt, this is just my point. It seems that's the way most engineers/designers do things. Rough it out in CAD and iterate until it's right. I know several ID guys who don't touch CAD until they have sketched out a concept it 3D and they are able to put a design together much faster because of it. For most people (assuming a basic level of sketch ability) sketching something will be quite a bit faster than modeling in 3D. So, if 3D sketching can be learned, I think it makes a lot of sense to put forth the time and effort to do so in order to speed up one's workflow. The big question is can 3D sketching be learned? My feeling is yes, and I just wanted to get the opinions of others.


I know from doing hand drafting we had to do very very little free hand sketching. Over the years my hand sketches have gotten better(even with little effort). To me i love being able to rotate my surfaces. Ive gone through several projects where i had a few hand sketches that looked great but when trying to replicate them in 3d certain views looked awful. This is usually why i skip the hand drafting step personally BUT when i am modeling something with no references I do always put pen to paper at some point. Although its usually after i have modeled a few surfaces. a bit backwards I know:)

Some guys just get 3d sketching, just like some guys just get 3d modeling. Anyone can learn anything but id say your starting point now and what you are using it for will determine its usefulness. For instance if you could draw 5 slight revisions of the same body and rotate them to any view in 3d in the same time you could make 5 views of 1 body by hand is it viable?

When people respond i would also love to know their background. I come from a mechanical background so my hand sketches are very mechanical in nature.

#7 Guest_amoncur_*

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 06:13 AM

Matt,

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "modeling something with no references"? I'm curious to understand when the hand sketching is valuable for you.

I am also from a mechanical background. However, I have been thinking lately that the ability to sketch in 3D before ever touching CAD could significantly speed up my workflow, since CAD is often time-intensive, especially when you reach a dead end that required the 3D modeling to realize said dead end. Sounds like you are of the opposite opinion, yes? In other words, you feel going straight to CAD is the more efficient approach?

I would love to hear opinions from others who have both workflows (i.e.3D hand sketching a blueprint and finishing in CAD, and straight to CAD with no hand sketching).

#8 Guest_spillai00_*

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 05:07 AM

ASk and u shall revceive...
...yes u can learn how to draw 3d....
..we were not born mechanical enginneers ..it came fromm good education and experience.
3D drawing is not magic....it also follows various rules..but it is much harder than drafting.

But i guess ur main question is ..."is it possible" ...yes it is....

Check out - Scot Robertson .Basic Drawing ...
Get ur hand on a few Architectural drawing books....(to understand percpective)

Let me reiterate what u said...When u conceptualise ur design direct into cad packages...ur arleardy limiting ur option...cause basically like a video game u play continuously .....u know all the cheat codes... and want to get to the princess fast....

Many times when i doogle i get something new.... unecpected form my drawing ..let say that X-factor.

Ya ..my background is in engineering (S.P.M and Press tool and Product development).....

#9 Guest_amoncur_*

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 05:19 AM

Fantastic! This is my feeling, as well. I'd never discussed this with others and so wasn't sure if I was alone or not. Good to hear others feel the same way. Thanks for sharing!

#10 engio

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 11:25 AM

It can definitely be learned, but needs lots of practice to get good, and fast. Check out the mentioned Scott Robertson DVD, there are lots of logical approaches to constructing your geometry. When you understand the rules, you can practice them to ultimately be able to forget about them.

I usually doodle hideous creations to get a feeling for a concept, and form it in my head. Depending on who it needs to be presented too, I will make a presentable digital sketch, raging from very loose to very tight. After that I will go to CAD and work on details, surfaces etc. As mentioned, CAD approach is very iterative, and often means you have one idea that you polish as it is extremely daunting to realize that the idea is flawed and you need to start over.

But, I must say it can also depend on the product. I once worked on a ladder, which is all aluminum extrusions. That was way faster to CAD a bunch of different configurations. However - before doing that I still made a bunch of sketches of how the profile would look.

My edu is a BSc mech eng light and a MA in ID. At work i'm responsible for the design of things and delivering a proper model with drafts and thickness and what have you.

#11 Guest_Shift1313_*

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 02:02 AM

Matt,

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "modeling something with no references"? I'm curious to understand when the hand sketching is valuable for you.

I am also from a mechanical background. However, I have been thinking lately that the ability to sketch in 3D before ever touching CAD could significantly speed up my workflow, since CAD is often time-intensive, especially when you reach a dead end that required the 3D modeling to realize said dead end. Sounds like you are of the opposite opinion, yes? In other words, you feel going straight to CAD is the more efficient approach?

I would love to hear opinions from others who have both workflows (i.e.3D hand sketching a blueprint and finishing in CAD, and straight to CAD with no hand sketching).



What i mean about the references for instance, i have drawn a few cars in SW using blueprints and reference photos. Like the attached images. In these cases if i were able to draw in 2d what i wanted i would have used the sketches. A few weeks ago i drew a car from scratch with no sketches or references. I just worked the model through about 20 revisions. Me working through those 20 revisions to my final product was about 18hrs. In that case i feel like having some reference pics or photos may have influenced the model too much. So basically the end result allowed the surface to work better rather than forcing them into a predefined shape. I could very quickly get my 3d surfaces and tweak them into something.

That doesnt work in all cases of course. I will say 99% of the time if i do put pen to paper first that image never ends up on my screen but rather its a loose guideline. The only time i actually go by images is if i need to replicate an object, even as a starting point.

As far as polishing off a model and realizing you have to start over, that is a problem. I don't do a final polished version until i get to a certain point. I will play with surfaces but not worry about the details. Kind of like hand sketching and erasing. When i said 20 revisions of that car(not pictured here) there were many more, but 20 saved versions. I either save a copy and work off it, make changes, delete and start from another point and so on. Learning to use your time efficiently is key. The devil is in the details :D

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#12 kei2001

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 12:58 AM

The answer for your question is "yes".

Anyone can learn your so-called "sketch in 3D" through some good lessons.

in concept design field they call it as "Dynamic sketch",in my words I call it as "3D modeling on paper".

The key concept to do so is thinking in 3D modeling mode when drawing(on 2D papers).

but there is a big problem ~there are few lessons talking about this in the world.

Scott Robertson'DVD is pretty good but it's contents was quiet difficult for a beginner.


if you need to learn about it ,check my lessons in blog~
http://onemanshowdes...n-spatial logic

(use google auto-translate,I think...)




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