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advancedboy

Next Generation Ford Mustang

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The proportions are totally messed up.

 

It's easy to do the super short overhangs in 2D...once you try resolving those in 3D you'll realize that getting that shape is nearly impossible and achieve that type of form.

 

The front overhang is way too short, the door is way too long, and your wheels aren't circular. The A-pillar/mirror area also looks clumsy and unresolved.

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Firstly, you even don`t see the door length, as I have not added the front line of them. The wheels can be made circular, if you bother so much. The front overhang is so short because the car is sloping forward, probably it is sloping even too little, so that means the rear overhang needs evem nore lengthening and slope on rear part should be reduced even more. probably I will add some element to A pillar to create really slope forward -feeling. \besides this is a small Yaris Verso type of vehicle. The front overhang is deduced from a small engine that would be installed in front bay. The rear could be used for some batteries as well.

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Firstly, you even don`t see the door length, as I have not added the front line of them. The wheels can be made circular, if you bother so much. The front overhang is so short because the car is sloping forward, probably it is sloping even too little, so that means the rear overhang needs evem nore lengthening and slope on rear part should be reduced even more. probably I will add some element to A pillar to create really slope forward -feeling. \besides this is a small Yaris Verso type of vehicle. The front overhang is deduced from a small engine that would be installed in front bay. The rear could be used for some batteries as well.

 

If it's a Yaris sized vehicle your overall proportions (height) are still off.

 

Take a picture of a Yaris.

 

Now put it on top of your car.

 

Now tell me if your proportions still seem correct.

 

Either your wheels are huge (which means your car is really the length of a long coupe like a VW Eos) or your wheels are normal sized and your car is about 12" too short in length and height.

 

Or everything is perfect and I'm just crazy.

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Guest PEDROBRAS
Or everything is perfect and I'm just crazy.

 

I think that's what is happening...

 

uhahuahuahuahuahuahuahahuahauhha! nevermind dood...this discussion will never end...his steedo is fantastic, such as his humility...

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Humility must be deserved. I am down to earth and humble, where criticism is supported by one`s own examples of fine designing. That simple.

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Guest Gringoire

Unfortunately, you're far from being down to earth and humble. You're more like stubborn (a lot...) and anywhere but not down to earth since those cars look more like alien vehicles. Perhaps they are excellent, but not on Earth ... why not try Pluto?

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Humility must be deserved. I am down to earth and humble, where criticism is supported by one`s own examples of fine designing. That simple.

 

You are the furthest thing from down to earth and humble. You are so high on your own pedestal of "what design is" that you have absolutely no conception of what an actual industrial designer is, or the actual industrial or automotive design process.

 

You want some real professional car designers to rip your work apart? Try posting on Core77 instead - this board is much tamer and mostly full of amatuers and students by comparison. Maybe then you'll realize that you're just full of yourself.

 

And last time I checked I had actually worked for a semester with GM, but I (and several of my current co-workers) all realized that the car design industry is a mostly awful place where you work too long to be paid too little and the product design field is more rewarding.

 

And fine designing? My last production project won a Red Dot design award, is currently a finalist for the Austraillian and IDEA awards, and was featured in the last issue of ID Magazine. Whats on your resume?

 

Industrial Design isn't a feeling. It's a process.

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Guest Taro

sigh, come on man, just try for once and start over. I'm sure you've seen people around in your life, or on these forums, that had dramatic improvements over just a short period of time. You can probably find that they improve because they are willing to start (or even start-over) from the very basic.

 

And btw, anyone can critique your work :D 90% of the people that reads your work are not professional, in fact, you are not a professional yourself, so what gave you the right to judge on the current automobiles?

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Gringoire, do you realize that by posting a link here to your blogspot, which contains childish pencil drawings of vikings and car copies, and picture of yourself with a wad of money in hands, simply erases last morsels of your authority as a car design specialist or someone whose critique I should listen to. Sorry, but I had to say that.

Cyberdemon, awards don`t speak, yet a fine car design sketch right from you would ! If you worked for GM, simply name the car you worked on, or show some sketches of the concepts. And what is a core77? IS it some kind of website for car designers?

Besides, imagine if every teacher when observing his students work, would always compare them to Stradivaris and Mozarts, and always point out how lame they are compared to them, and would simply ignore any progress as an easy sideeffect, yet zealously point out every failure, what would become of those students? Imagine a teacher teaching arts, and showing pictures of art, and critiquing how the painting should be done, yet no student would ever had seen the teacher with a brush in his hands, what kind of authority would that be? I agree, I am stubborn, but I am not arrogant.

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Guest Taro

A teacher teaching art has a certain level of skill in fine art, that is why he is hired to teach. There is even a high chance that students will surpass their teachers at the end of the class, so what? The important thing is that the students improved, isn't it?

 

btw www.core77.com

 

it is a bigger version of this site, with more professionals, in all areas of I.D. You will get more opinions from professional designers (if they are interested in your work). In my opinion, you are not yet at the 'design' stage yet, so most of them will ask you to return to the basic.. sketching.

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Gringoire, do you realize that by posting a link here to your blogspot, which contains childish pencil drawings of vikings and car copies, and picture of yourself with a wad of money in hands, simply erases last morsels of your authority as a car design specialist or someone whose critique I should listen to. Sorry, but I had to say that.

Cyberdemon, awards don`t speak, yet a fine car design sketch right from you would ! If you worked for GM, simply name the car you worked on, or show some sketches of the concepts. And what is a core77? IS it some kind of website for car designers?

Besides, imagine if every teacher when observing his students work, would always compare them to Stradivaris and Mozarts, and always point out how lame they are compared to them, and would simply ignore any progress as an easy sideeffect, yet zealously point out every failure, what would become of those students? Imagine a teacher teaching arts, and showing pictures of art, and critiquing how the painting should be done, yet no student would ever had seen the teacher with a brush in his hands, what kind of authority would that be? I agree, I am stubborn, but I am not arrogant.

 

I don't fully agree with your argument, there are some good points in it, but it feels too immature to be taken seriously.

The main thing I don't agree with you on, and this will definitely differ by person, is the point you made to Gringoire.

Personal opinion.

Here's my take, does it really matter what Gringoire's skill level is or how he portrays himself on a blog? Does it really matter if it is a specialist or not? Isn't advice and critiques something who selflessly does for someone else in hopes that he or she may see something previously unseen or even build upon something that is good and should be further explored?

I mean seriously, everyone on this forum can choose to completely ignore every single post you make and every single thread you create. Sure, not everyone here provides "nice" crits and some can be reworded in a better way to be more beneficial to the poster, but all in all, the concept of a forum, it's members, and critiques is basically the idea of selflessly helping each other.

 

You don't have to be a specialist.

Going a bit more indepth, one does not need to be pro, a specialist, or some famed designer to point out something that looks wrong. For example, if I was trying to draw an orange, but made a mistake and it looked more like an apple. If I then took my drawing and showed it to a elementary kid and I said what do you think of my orange drawing? And the kid will most likely say,

 

"I don't know, I don't think it looks like an orange, I think apple?"

 

Is this kid a farmer? A famous artist, or even a scientist who genetically engineers food? No, he just an elementary kid who just saw something I couldn't see. On that note, I can respond in two different way. I can talk back to the kid and say,

 

"Who do you think you are kid! I'm an artist, don't you think I know the difference between an apple and an orange? What are you, like 4-5 years old? Ha, how would you know what an apple or orange is? I bet you barely know your ABC's!"

 

Or, I can be like,

"Really? Hmm, what part? Here? Hey you are right! It does kind of look like an apple."

 

 

Validity of an award

I agree with you on one thing, awards don't always mean that you are a good designer, it just simply means that you best matched the design criteria for that competition. But at the same time, you are competing with thousands of other designers like yourself, that's some heavy competition, and to come out on top, you should applaud Cyberdemon for his success not deface him or her. If awards and competition don't speak, which were judged by "specialists" most likely and was picked from a group of other designers, how will we judge a fine car design sketch from Cyberdemon that you so heavily request? Will it be judged by you alone, by the productdesignforums members? But wait, like Cyberdemon said, a majority of pdf members are amateurs, so in the end you would still be dissatisfied with the sketch because none of us can prove or are to be famed specialists. Bummer.

 

NDA, Non Disclosure Agreement?

Sure Cyberdemon can argue that he worked at GM, and maybe although you requested, he or she may be unable to provide you with concept sketches and the cars worked on. In this case, would you automatically assume that Cyberdemon was lying and that he has no proof? What if a NDA was signed and was prohibited to talk or show what was worked on? Just a thought.

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Sketchyd, I partly agree, but consider this. Apple type of designing is a duplicating or a ` math design`, the idea is to duplicate something from reality, that`s why even a child could figure a fault out. When you draw a portrait of a person anyone can see if the rendering accurately depicts the due person, it doesn`t require a rocket scientist. In the same category goes perspective. perspective happens itself, and has no different value depending on the person who judges it. Yet design of a car goes beyond that. Art of design is the skill of walking the thin line of edge of proportions, the closer you master going to that edge, the better a designer you are. Of course nice elements and textures give a signature to artist. Michael Schumacher is a great driver, because he senses the last morsels of latteral g`s available before the car would spin out, thelast meters available before brakes need to be applied, the same way designers of ,say,Infiniti joggle on the edge of proportions to achieve masterful proprtions. Their ability to fight the last available milimiters and not centimeters on the clay mock ups is what makes them great. And the fight always happens in design , where visual mass, and slope of mass takes place. That`s why there is no fight in designing computers, speakers or tables. Simply there is no dogfight over the edge of proportions. So, to be able to criticize others car designs, you have to be able to see the edge of proportions, where too much is too much.To validate yourself as a good designer, depicting a phtorealistic wall unit, chair or box won`t cut it. You need to show a `dogfight over the proportions `, the fine proximity of the edge that you walk, will tell me how fine a designer you are, and how seriously we should take your critique. Spare the swooshes, that is cheating. What is the greatness of Greek sculptures? What is so great about David? Is it because he looks so realistic? No, it is the art of design, the genius skills of carving out dramatic proportions, of where the masculine male body has a doghfight with adolescence, the dogfight of last available milimeters, where the body would turn either too rough and masculine, or too young and frail.

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Guest Taro

I am going to go sketchyd style here.

 

What are people out there looking for?

 

the industry is not really looking for people who can render a nice (or not) car, they are looking for 'ideas and form generators." You may be able to produce a fully realistic car in a week, while others already have over 50 variations of the design. Then, he gets to pick out successful elements from the variations.

 

If you are going to try super hard to convince a client that your one car rendering is awesome, all that perfection stuff.. why not offer your client loads and loads of choices? Especially during these earlier stages, you want to have as many ideas as possible.

 

Coming out of a book

 

Honestly, the stuff you say right now, rather than being personal opinions, I feel that it came out of a book. It is something that anyone interested in cars can read up, study it, memorize it, and act like they know the perfect proportion, etc etc. But the idea is YOURS, and that is what people really value. We don't go to school to learn what perfect design is (because no such thing exists), we go to learn the process of designing.

 

Perfect design???!

 

Since you mentioned infinity, is there any way where you can prove that they design cars the same way you do? No sketches? No ideations? I don't think so. They have studios generating forms and ideas daily.

 

Forget about perfection, since the world doesn't work that way. You can ask for perfect quality in your work, but an idea is never perfect. No product or car in this world can satisfy everyone. Design is subjective, period.

 

The fact that infinity is not the most successful car brand out there, nor the best selling cars, nor the only car brand, we can probably conclude that there is no perfect car.

 

Exception

 

Of course, there is an exception.

 

Target groups! People you are designing for???? Customers??

 

Like how an audi a4 is more targeted towards the younger generation while the a6 seems a little more mature.

Set your target groups before you even start, unless you are just rendering for fun.

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Guest Gringoire
Gringoire, do you realize that by posting a link here to your blogspot, which contains childish pencil drawings of vikings and car copies, and picture of yourself with a wad of money in hands, simply erases last morsels of your authority as a car design specialist or someone whose critique I should listen to. Sorry, but I had to say that.

Cyberdemon, awards don`t speak, yet a fine car design sketch right from you would ! If you worked for GM, simply name the car you worked on, or show some sketches of the concepts. And what is a core77? IS it some kind of website for car designers?

Besides, imagine if every teacher when observing his students work, would always compare them to Stradivaris and Mozarts, and always point out how lame they are compared to them, and would simply ignore any progress as an easy sideeffect, yet zealously point out every failure, what would become of those students? Imagine a teacher teaching arts, and showing pictures of art, and critiquing how the painting should be done, yet no student would ever had seen the teacher with a brush in his hands, what kind of authority would that be? I agree, I am stubborn, but I am not arrogant.

 

I can reply to you using same tools but I won't. Blogspot is a personal blog and it counts as a personal info ( I have no comments on that blog about design) . Sketching has turned into something like "a bit more than a hobby" for me so I don't want to compete nor place myself among the pros. As for money, I know what hard work means and money don't come easy. I have to agree that the picture made me look like a materialistic person but that was years ago. At the same time you disgust me with the usage of such methods to try to bring me down. I did not made comments that were off about you and your sketches and I will never try to make fun of you. My intentions were to make you realize that you went on a wrong path with this design thing and to show you the normal and the only way to go on (basics of design). I don't want to repeat myself but... You went on the wrong path... You went on the wrong path... You went on the wrong path ... with this design thing

 

It only depends on you if to adopt what has been suggested not only by me but most of the people that made comments on your work or keep on the road to nowhere...

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I loved this part the best.

 

"That`s why there is no fight in designing computers, speakers or tables."

 

Really? Do you think industrial designers just spit out the first design they can think of and move on? I've spent the past week fighting against a 2mm growth on a handheld radio.

 

Same thing with your thought of how a professor should act. The vast majority of my professors drew like crap - but when they told ME I drew like crap I spent a lot of time fighting them. Then I quickly realized I was just being thick-headed, realized I did draw like crap, and worked hard on improving. Everyone is arrogant - part of the foundation years of design school are spent teaching you to accept critique, analyze it, and use it towards improving your work, rather than becoming defensive which means you learn nothing. In the real world you have very little options of being defensive - if your boss tells you something is wrong, you need to correct it in a way that makes both of you happy and improves the design, or get fired.

 

You are expecting Chris Bangle to come on here and tell you to adjust your "slope", and that won't happen.

 

I have been on these boards a long time and I'm completely civil up until the point where someone comes on and continues to ask for advice, but not listen to it. In my history here there has been only one other person I recall being so stubborn. No one should spend their time dealing with that, but everyone else on these forums is here to learn and offer help as well as criticism.

 

Until you realize that "criticism" and "help" are the same thing as I have said before you will learn nothing.

 

I really just need to stop posting...this is completely ridiculous. :ermm:

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