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Guest Another_Nocturn

Alternatives To (the Now Dead?) Hypershot...

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Guest Another_Nocturn

So by now you've probably seen the posts and articles citing Bunkspeed's loss of the rights to sell HyperShot. If not, check out the post below or the threads in Bunkspeed Forums.

 

http://develop3d.com/blog/2010/01/bunkspeed-the-future

 

While I hope for the best for the folks at Bunkspeed - I am planning for the worst in case they really don't bounce right back with a bigger and better application. (really, can anyone really "bounce right back" after their flagship software package undergoes a hostile takeover?)

 

So whats next?

I have used HyperMove extensively and while I like the general interface, it has a lot of drawbacks in its power and flexability; mostly as a result of their effort to make it simple and idiot-proof. I'll probably keep using HyperMove for the time being but my instincts tell me it would be wise to find a more stable company fast. HyperMove still has its share of bugs, and Bunkspeed's patches have become few and far between. Between this, the forgotten users library, etc., I think their development team is just too overwelmed to get things polished and out the door in a reasonable time frame.

 

Ive also been looking at Modo; especially for its close ties with Solidworks (my primary app). From what I understand, Photoview 360 is their brainchild and Modo is their "get it all" flagship. I am guessing that the pipeline between both apps will only get better. Hair/Fur generation, Built-In Network Renderings, User-powered online asset libraries, a price tag about half of what I paid for HyperMove.... It definitely has my attention.

 

Maya and 3DS Max are both long proven, extremely capable apps but they both seem geared mostly toward game development and entertainment; not CAD users. Additionally, Autodesk is making an aggressive push toward its own CAD package, so I am doubting Solidworks users will see much Love from them in the future.

 

Maxwell, Ive got a seat and love it, but man; its not a lightning quick app to use or learn. Also, it doesn't really offer animation, and that's is a growing part of my workload.

 

I haven't really worked too much with other apps like Cinema, Alias, blender etc; but I am hoping some of you might have some other thoughts to make them worth exploring.

 

Sound off, What rendering and animation apps are you guys digging, and why

 

 

-B

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Sounds like after reading all that theres no real reason to jump ship. Looks like Hypershot will continue to live as a product from another vendor (nobody flinched when Autodesk aquired any of their 3 million packages, including Alias and Maya), and Bunkspeed will release a new tool on their own.

 

Personally my app of the moment is Showcase. (Although it is refusing to work today!) It has both real time ray tracing and GPU based rendering, and I've gotten very very good results out of it. It continues to be refined and each year there are 2 releases with more features than the last, so I'm happy with the rate that it is developing at.

 

From a design visualization standpoint, it's a very powerful tool and the animation capabilities are being focused on more now that the core rendering areas are pretty solid. The ability to assign hot spots on your geometry (click the power button and my screen can turn on, click a key and I can move through UI, change different objects, a lot of power including building your own 3D UI if you wanted). It's a great design review tool as well, it's current weakness in my case is the fact that real time 3D reviews do not work well over the web. No point in having super nice visuals if the people on the other end of my net meeting are waiting for it to buffer the whole time.

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Wait and see what happens. But if you area SOlidworks user then Modo is the obvious answer. But then I think PhotoView 360 2011 will have a lot going for it as well.....

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I am keeping an eye on Octane Render for GPU rendering.

Modo is still awesome. Photoview 360 is really cool too.

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Guest Another_Nocturn

I ended up picking up several videos and a book for Modo 401 and have to say that the forum support and continual flow of training that comes out of luxology is pretty impressive. Ive also been watching the gallery cant believe that some of the shots are not photos. The learning curve is no joke though... wow there are a lot of tools to learn and numerical relationships to "understand".

 

My demo runs out in about a week, and once my 'tax-damage' has passed - il probably pick up a seat and forge ahead with it.

 

 

Anyway, check out these samples.. they just blow me away

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57b95e317c249458b76de9164a38b6c0.jpg

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Yeah - the rendering package you choose I think has a lot to do with your workflow and what gap you need to fill.

 

If you work in a space where hyper-realism is a must - then it is worth the time and investment to polish your skills on a single app that you are going to stick with for a long time.

 

The issue is being able to dive in and really pick things up quickly. I think it took me about 6 months of use before I really started feeling comfortable with Mental Ray. That included a lot of trial and error, deep understanding of shaders, and watching tutorial DVD's to explain all the math differences between types of rays, settings, etc. But the power is there.

 

Luckily I work in a space where 90% of my shaders are black plastic, so once I have one product done it's easy for me to crank open showcase, apply shaders, render, and I have all the renderings I need in 30 minutes. Even though I love mental ray the time I used to have to budget for even decent renderings was days, not hours. When time to market is constantly a shrinking factor I just can't afford that anymore.

 

I do miss the old fashioned tweaking though. It was always fun to hit "Render" and wait till morning to see what would pop out.

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Guest Another_Nocturn
Even though I love mental ray the time I used to have to budget for even decent renderings was days, not hours. When time to market is constantly a shrinking factor I just can't afford that anymore.

 

What are you using these days as your replacement for Mental Ray?

 

 

That statement really nails my concerns on the head. For any given design project, I typically throw in a few renderings for a number of reasons. 1) it sometimes gets the customer fired up about marketing artwork thus leading to additional work, and 2) eventually I want to have something to show in my own gallery. This extra eye-candy is easy to justify when the time required to create it is so slight.

 

Enter Modo,

While it does have a real-time renderer view port and a ton of presets (both built-in and online downloadable), I have to wonder just how much time the tweaking will eat up. I think like anything else, once you begin to "understand" the numbers, you know what values to start adjusting when something just doesnt look right. My biggest problems with the point-n-shoot renderers is that when I do score a much bigger render or animation job - I frequently run into that capabilty 'block wall'. For example, In one particular project I had to show a flexing plastic part. For Hypershot and HyperMove - thats just not possible without an elaborate illusion, but in programs like modo (max, and others), its laughably easy. The same can be said of Displacement textures and volumetric lights, rigging of mechanisms, etc. All of these thigs are pretty valueable when presenting certain products and just not possible with many "easy-button" rendering apps.

 

Like anything - simplicity is always a trade-off for capability..

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if you own Hypershot don't buy anything yet. You get a free upgrade to the new Bunkspeed application Shot which replaces it, and you also get a free upgrade to Luxion's own product KeyShot. Keyshot is identical to Hypershot and is developed by the same core people as hypershot.

 

www.keyshot.com

 

Hypershot may be dead but for end users this is actually turning out well as both Bunkspeed and Luxion are offering both new products to existing (paid for that is) Hypershot users. Use both, stick with what you prefer. I'm already running Keyshot and it works great. I'll wait and see what Bunkspeed bring to the table now as well.

 

So all is not lost and we (for once) are actually ending up with a double deal.

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What are you using these days as your replacement for Mental Ray?

 

Right now I do all my work in Showcase - but as you mentioned depending on what you are working on it may not be as simple as that.

 

If you work in a field where things like Fur, complex raytracing (caustics, etc) and those features are actually going to roll into what you are working on, then it pays to invest your time in a full fledged package, and just know that it's going to take you 3 days to get the renderings to the way you can present to a client and factor that into your time frame.

 

Since I am in the corporate/product world I have 2 nice advantages: 1 - People are judging the detail of my product, surfacing quality, etc - not my renderings (that's not to say I skimp, but it's less of an issue). 2: Almost every product I do I know will be black plastic and other traditional materials. For that workflow showcase works great. I know if I am spending a lot of time getting my design refined in the solid model I can bring it in and within an hour or 2 have some solid visuals to present in real time.

 

Showcase is a much better design vis tool then a rendering tool, but I've still gotten great results out of it even in real-time mode. But the workflow improvements to me are worth much more than the extra 5% of quality I would get out of spending an entire week cranking on a rendering in Mental Ray, and my modfications are instantly visible.

 

Heres one I did last year - what is more impressive that you can't see though is that this rendering was part of a scene that had over a dozen accessories built into it, so that with a single click I could completely change the keypad, display, bring in all types of cradles and mounts, and have it all visualized instantly.

 

post-3706-1266336712.jpg

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Guest JelleT
if you own Hypershot don't buy anything yet. You get a free upgrade to the new Bunkspeed application Shot which replaces it, and you also get a free upgrade to Luxion's own product KeyShot. Keyshot is identical to Hypershot and is developed by the same core people as hypershot.

 

www.keyshot.com

 

Hypershot may be dead but for end users this is actually turning out well as both Bunkspeed and Luxion are offering both new products to existing (paid for that is) Hypershot users. Use both, stick with what you prefer. I'm already running Keyshot and it works great. I'll wait and see what Bunkspeed bring to the table now as well.

 

So all is not lost and we (for once) are actually ending up with a double deal.

 

Bunkspeed will make use of the iRay engine meaning it will be GPU based. If your graphics card supports CUDA than your rendering times will shorten significantly

 

Like this nutty professor explains: http://www.mentalimages.com/index.php?id=634

 

If you have purchased a computersystem adapted for Hypershot (>>CPU, hyperthreating, CoreI something) you would be better of sticking with Keyshot I guess. Unless it has a briljant graphics card aswell ;-)

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Guest Buff

I too need 'quick and easy' rendering. getting accross the idea in a manner which clients expect, without taking so much time as to charge so much that they wont pay for.

 

Keyshot is fine for this I think. It delivers modest results quickly. just a few clicks and a half decent image ensues.

 

I have Showcase on trial at the moment and I have to say it isnt as 'out of the box intuative' as keyshot IMO, but then again I have no previous training/experiance with the whole photoreal rendering thing.

 

The two are within a similar price point.

 

Wonder what Bunkspeed will bring?

 

What I find hard to grasp is the gap between Seimens/ptc rendering and the capability that Lightworks demonstrate on its website. perhaps its a week of tweaking? that's time I simply don't have and would likley use someone like protograph for top end photoreal renderings

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I have Showcase on trial at the moment and I have to say it isnt as 'out of the box intuative' as keyshot IMO, but then again I have no previous training/experiance with the whole photoreal rendering thing.

 

In my experience very simple renderings are quick/easy to get out of hypershot - but as soon as you dive into any complexity (complex projections, decals) the interface falls on it's face. Showcases texture widget alone saves me a huge amount of headaches.

 

Some of the things are a bit quirky in the way they work, but most of them are explained fairly well in the help documentation. Overall the Showcase interface is much more polished than Hypershot, even if the initial setup seems more daunting.

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Guest Buff

I agree 100%. You have to do as much F*%^ing around with hyper/keyshot as anyother if you want something other than the standard Library and decals are a photoshop job, which I have even less time and inclination to indulge in.

 

I really am impresses with the renders you've shown on here from Showcase. Roughly how long did you spend on the above images?

 

I take note btw what you said about developing your own standard set ups. I suspect once done its just as quick as keyshot to get half decet results and sounds more versatile. Particularly if you are working one-on-one with a client over something like colour/texture choices

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