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advancedboy

Giotto Concept( Reloaded)

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I love how you want "pros" to talk about design - but in reailty we don't talk, we sketch. It's the reason every designer carrys around a notebook, and has a whiteboard. When someone wants feedback on a design we don't give them a 60 minute lecture on "lensing" we pick up a marker and say "hey what about this? or this? or this? or this?".

 

Ideation is a fundamental of design and design thinking and it's something you have not shown you understand throughout any of your rants or tirades.

 

And when you come off saying stuff like this:

 

You can discard anything I say, but once you go knocking on doors at VW , Ford or Opel and they are always locked for you, don`t blame them.

 

It really shows you think you get it way more than you actually do.

 

Talk is cheap. Stop talking and start drawing. No one in this world EVER got a design job just by talking, and that seems to be all you are good at.

 

If you want to improve draw.

 

If you want to continue to insist you know so much about design, then present shamefully poor paintings of cars, no one will take you seriously and we are all just beating a dead horse.

 

I honestly do hope that something clicks in your head and you actually understand that point. If you took the amount of energy you had in writing and put it into a pen and paper you would improve 100x faster than you are by spending hours justifying your design theology to an audience who knows it's just talk. At the end of that you have not improved your skills at all, nor have you refined your design at all.

 

Look at ANY car designers portfolio on earth and tell me what they have in common - an amazing ability to draw. It's not about 3D cad, it's not about photorealistic renderings, it's about drawing.

 

Look at ANY transportation design school. What is their prerequsite for entry? Not an essay - an art portfolio.

 

Maybe you think I'm lying to you. Maybe you think "Hey this guy just gets his kicks making fun of people on the internet because they are designers than him" OR maybe it's just that some of us actually know what it takes to progress and succeed in design both personally and professionally.

 

So hopefully one day you get it...

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Guest under-dog
oh yeah, I just remembered this thing.

 

PERHAPS (now i am just guessing), you find these crits to hard to take because we are criting your final. Something you have spent hours and hours on, it has been crit badly.

 

On the other hand, if you start getting similiar crits starting from the very beginning sketch, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, unless you choose to get mad over something you did in 10 minutes.

 

The point is, it is much easier to guide someone from the very beginning, bit by bit, step by step. Not just that it is hard to crit your work, you will/did find it hard to accept them.

 

 

Exactly my point. He seems to be refusing to show the early steps. this is what makes me wonder if there were any or if he just sketched something without refining or validating it and began to render the hell out of it. maybe even over render it.

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Guest under-dog
After reading all, i find a bit people seeing each other negative things in them... why can't people help each other ?? it would be nice to make a product worth while for end user to be happy and satisfied not designer's fighting !! i am a amateur don't mind my words.

 

to advanced boy:: from where you collected your design philosophies as most of design institute talk visual not theoretical.

to improve my knowledge.

 

to : professionals ::: everybody say sketch... sketch... wat if a good sketch never be possible of manufacturing ? isn't it a man with good application brain be designer ? advanced boy has theoretical and application brain.

 

no offesiveness is my philosophy .. criticism are welcome :specool: :D

 

i am not a god to be right always. even god made wrong he created human too much population and all selfish, egoist :cheers:

 

Lets say that sketching is not his strong suit........

 

There are other methods for conveying a thought or in this case a design. Sketching is a desired method as it can be very fast and unencumbered to work through certain design elements before getting too involved with modelling, engineering, etc.

 

there are many sculptors that can just look at a piece of granite and see what is in there and carve out a beautiful sculpture without sketches, drawings or ever touching a pencil to paper. His modelling skills seem to be fairly compitent. Maybe this is his best way of communicating. However this can be very time consuming and very difficult to work through design evolutions, iterations and versions.

 

 

Yes it is possible for someone with a good sense of applied methodology to be a good designer. IMHO it is somewhat necissary. However there is a point where the scale tips between purly engineering and design. I cannot qualify from what I have seen that he falls on either side of this fence let alone straddle it. Like i said his sculpting ability seemed to be sound. This does not mean his design or engineering capabilities are though.

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Guest Taro
to : professionals ::: everybody say sketch... sketch... wat if a good sketch never be possible of manufacturing ? isn't it a man with good application brain be designer ? advanced boy has theoretical and application brain.

 

you are actually correct about a good sketch never be able of manufacturing, and that is because sketch is an artistic form of idea. It is something that EVEN IF your client is not artistic, and completely has no knowledge to cars or products. You can show it to him, and he would be interested. If I was a client, there is no way you can get pass me by giving me a lecture, or show me one final model. A really nice model is good to understand things, but it makes me think... hmm, is this all you got?

 

So, sketches are too important in this field, it is like... an universal conveying ideas tool.

 

Also, I am not a professional either, but I think 'your' sketches never get to be manufactured anyways. What I mean by that is, you are probably going to do these sketches to generate ideas, and perhaps working with a team of designers, scientists, engineer etc. The final product is built up step by step, sketching being an important one.

 

However, my model teacher did tell us that they did a concept car for toyota without any sketches once. They subsituted quick model for sketches. LIke they would take a clay or w/e material it was, put it on their elbows and arms and etcetc to make a shape. Then wait for it to dry, and take pictures of them from different angles.. and then put it on the computer and play around with it by stretching them, distorting them that kind of things. Then interesting shapes would come up, and that is what they used as "sketches".

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Guest lokilabs

I would be interested in seeing the sketches used for the helicopter....even the final sketch that led up to the model. Makes me wonder a little bit....

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Guest under-dog
I would be interested in seeing the sketches used for the helicopter....even the final sketch that led up to the model. Makes me wonder a little bit....

 

 

I have stated this earlier. I agree. I have a suspicion as well that they do not exist.

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Guest lokilabs
I would be interested in seeing the sketches used for the helicopter....even the final sketch that led up to the model. Makes me wonder a little bit....

 

 

I have stated this earlier. I agree. I have a suspicion as well that they do not exist.

 

 

kind of makes you wonder how he generated the helicopter form if he generated it at all. Especailly given the nature of the vehicle aesthetics. all of them look the same and then you have the aircraft with its stark contrast. i guess we will never know.

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The drawing of helicopter was a bit different as I had to do some changes because of the nature of physical parts available. For example I wanted a bit bigger size of rear fan( fenestron) but couldn`t find one, instead I used an old fan froma computer chip board. The same way I wanted wider chassis for the chopper , but also was limited, because, it would require to widen bulges in the body.I actually made the chassis of the chopper from disposable rzors, through which go long bolts within the frame. The thing is that when you make a model you can walk around it and then your eyes simply want some different things. there are still some things I am not satisfied within that model anyway. The thing is that you suggest me to do fast 5 minute sketches. And if I post them you will simply attack it by showing 2 degrree digression of elipsses or things of that nature.Which is fine, but my idea is to train shapes on sketches, and renderings and then apply them to models.

Loki- i didn`t know that I have achieved such a mastery of design and style that I can manage to make a truck and a sports sedan to look the same(Giotto and Utopia.)Tha is some integrity odf style, wow, ( deep irony).

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Guest lokilabs
The drawing of helicopter was a bit different as I had to do some changes because of the nature of physical parts available. For example I wanted a bit bigger size of rear fan( fenestron) but couldn`t find one, instead I used an old fan froma computer chip board. The same way I wanted wider chassis for the chopper , but also was limited, because, it would require to widen bulges in the body.I actually made the chassis of the chopper from disposable rzors, through which go long bolts within the frame. The thing is that when you make a model you can walk around it and then your eyes simply want some different things. there are still some things I am not satisfied within that model anyway. The thing is that you suggest me to do fast 5 minute sketches. And if I post them you will simply attack it by showing 2 degrree digression of elipsses or things of that nature.Which is fine, but my idea is to train shapes on sketches, and renderings and then apply them to models.

Loki- i didn`t know that I have achieved such a mastery of design and style that I can manage to make a truck and a sports sedan to look the same(Giotto and Utopia.)Tha is some integrity odf style, wow, ( deep irony).

The only thing ironic about the whole situation is your ability to merge two vehilces that should have completely different forms. Why would you make a GMC in the same class as a Lincoln or vise versa?

 

It must be beyond my comprehension.

 

In your infinite wisdom to master the art of design I admit defeat and am inclined to humbly request further teachings.

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Guest henry81
to : professionals ::: everybody say sketch... sketch... wat if a good sketch never be possible of manufacturing ? isn't it a man with good application brain be designer ? advanced boy has theoretical and application brain.

 

 

So, sketches are too important in this field, it is like... an universal conveying ideas tool.

 

However, my model teacher did tell us that they did a concept car for toyota without any sketches once. They subsituted quick model for sketches. LIke they would take a clay or w/e material it was, put it on their elbows and arms and etcetc to make a shape. Then wait for it to dry, and take pictures of them from different angles.. and then put it on the computer and play around with it by stretching them, distorting them that kind of things. Then interesting shapes would come up, and that is what they used as "sketches".

 

sketch gives us intial direction to go for what we want rather than playing things digitally... but the problem is people who heard of industrial design when they completed their engineering and really found of industrial design and they compare with it in their day today life.. actually i fell in love with design... but i had never sketched in my life...but the way i do things and i brought up things were similar to industrial designer... to be honest i sketched first time (no tracing, no gimmick works straight from my brain.. its not perfect... you know artist asked me to draw draw draw (plants and their leaf, building, this that... but i asked myself sud i not keep drawing "products" finally i learned plants, buildings to be sketch... " practice made perfect "

 

some people they sketched for more than 15 years.. as they sketch very well but don't have other knowledges... (people don't share their skill because of insecurity or something)... how can one who is in love with industrial design learn and improve sketching ?

 

professional's help advanced boy.

 

i hope advanced boy will understand that people here are helping him...

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Guest under-dog
I would be interested in seeing the sketches used for the helicopter....even the final sketch that led up to the model. Makes me wonder a little bit....

 

 

I have stated this earlier. I agree. I have a suspicion as well that they do not exist.

 

 

kind of makes you wonder how he generated the helicopter form if he generated it at all. Especailly given the nature of the vehicle aesthetics. all of them look the same and then you have the aircraft with its stark contrast. i guess we will never know.

 

 

This I am not in complete argreement with. I am not questioning that they are his work. In this case the helicopter. It very well may be that he has amore of a flair for conveying his ideas through sculpture but maybe not so well on paper. In fact, looking at the evidence, this seems to be the case. However, I think what is going on here is that he is trying to develope his skills on paper.

 

I have to imaging that he is the type of person that has a clear vision of what he wants to see just doesnt know how to cleanly get from point A to point B.

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