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Guest Cig

Which Modelling Program?

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Guest Cig

Ok, throughout uni I primarily used Rhino 3.

 

I have now left, and really only have rhino 3 on my laptop, sans renderer too :D

 

Is there programs which people recommend, and what is considered the best and most intuitive 3D modelling software for product design?

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Guest dobermann
Ok, throughout uni I primarily used Rhino 3.

 

I have now left, and really only have rhino 3 on my laptop, sans renderer too :D

 

Is there programs which people recommend, and what is considered the best and most intuitive 3D modelling software for product design?

 

 

You already have one of the most powerfull, easy to use 3d modelling software.You must know CAD very well.Change default rhino renderer to some more powerfull.

 

I think most proffesional(dedicated features fo product designers), most expencive(i think about 100k $) and most difficult to learn it(very few forums, tutorials about it), but it seems also most powerfull as such type of software. Autodesk studio tools(ex Alias studo) As rhino is very popular in ship building companies, studio tols is popular amongst car makers.

 

Someone correct me if i am wrong, it is just an personal opinion

 

Besides, why do you want to find some other software?you don't like rhino, or is it just a simple curiosity?

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I believe Studio Tools' 2010 releases shook up the prices a little. Alias Design now starts at 4000$ but from what I've read, it doesn't do much of anything at all - so you're looking at Alias Surface which runs for 20000$ so that's quite expensive. Then Alias Automotive supposedly goes for 65000$ which is only affordable for behemoths.

 

I must say that Studio Tools does seem to be very good at what it does, and that's design with NURBS.

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Guest dobermann
I believe Studio Tools' 2010 releases shook up the prices a little. Alias Design now starts at 4000$ but from what I've read, it doesn't do much of anything at all - so you're looking at Alias Surface which runs for 20000$ so that's quite expensive. Then Alias Automotive supposedly goes for 65000$ which is only affordable for behemoths.

 

I must say that Studio Tools does seem to be very good at what it does, and that's design with NURBS.

 

 

It seems that my price tag is old info:) I remember I saw promotional video from auodesk where some german jewelry company uses stodio tools.It was funny to see when some female client got her order, there was huge(50-100g) golden bracelet.

 

But look at the real side of this business. Alias Automative, name show, that it is mainly for automative design. How many car/machinery manufacturing companies you know, that could't afford such money??

 

If you are small business then use some cheap CAD or rhino, if you are medium or big, you can afford studio tools:D

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Guest Cig

I'm just curious really.

 

I'm self taught in Rhino, so my skills are fairly rough around the edges.

 

I was wondering if there was a program reputed to be better and simpler for the job.

 

Think I need to get Rhino 4, as I cant seem to get renderers to work on 3.

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Guest dobermann
I'm just curious really.

 

 

 

I was wondering if there was a program reputed to be better and simpler for the job.

 

 

If you want something simple, then make your products from paper:)

Rhino is pretty easy to learn comparing with others, but it has some negative aspects.

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Guest under-dog
I'm just curious really.

 

I'm self taught in Rhino, so my skills are fairly rough around the edges.

 

I was wondering if there was a program reputed to be better and simpler for the job.

 

Think I need to get Rhino 4, as I cant seem to get renderers to work on 3.

When you say"the job"..

 

That is very vague as you have never actually mentioned your intended task or type of product. Not that I saw anyways.

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Guest under-dog

I am shocked that you could not find at least 20 threads on the furum about this subject. For that reason I will not elaborate too much.

 

Anyhow....

 

Only two options were mentioned and at cost extremes. There are plenty of options mid range.

 

Solid Works, ProE, etc.

 

 

As far as Rhino 3. It is an older out of date full release. The last major release was 4 and I wouuld not be surprised if 5 wasnt on its way. Its been a few years at 4.

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Guest Cig

"The job" was general modelling, nothing specific.

 

I do like Rhino, I just wondered what other peoples opinions were, and if there was something which was better suited.

 

Sorry for not searching the forum, I'm still getting used to it.

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What you have now in rhino is good. If you want a faster workflow, depending on the product solidworks would be a good choice. Being able to change the model parametrically is much faster if you set it up correctly than it would be in rhino having to delete and rebuild surfaces all of the time.

I practiced some in rhino and then in solidworks and have stuck with using solidworks for the speed and modification benefits. People will always want to keep coming and changing stuff last minute, that's where the benefit will come in. But I still keep my rhino knowledge up to date because it's really good for trouble shooting and doing some complicated surfaces that give solidworks trouble. So it stays around as a translator and trouble-shooter.

For rendering, Vray gives you good results if you know what you're doing and it has a plugin for rhino. Also there's Hypershot for quick instant renders, not as realistic as vray but it's a difference most people (especially non-designers) won't even see, but the speed increase it gives you definitely makes it a good option. I believe vray also has an instant render out now that's like hypershot but I haven't seen it in action yet.

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Guest under-dog
"The job" was general modelling, nothing specific.

 

I do like Rhino, I just wondered what other peoples opinions were, and if there was something which was better suited.

 

Sorry for not searching the forum, I'm still getting used to it.

 

 

 

It really depends on the trype of projects and what level you are modelling at.

 

Parametrics(SW, ProE, etc.) are good for history based changes but can become very temperamental if the part is very complex especially with very organic nubs surfaces. This is where something like Rhino is good. Rhino does not care where the geometry came from. It is jut there(good or bad)

 

 

Solid Works has been my primary tool. However I have just started using Rhino because sometimes(usually) in the concept phase there are a lot of iterations. Sometimes small but sometimes big and the files can become unstable very quickly.

 

 

So the work flow I am striving for is a Rhino or SW/Rhino combination for early concepting but when the design becomes more locked in go to SW

 

Once into engineering you are better off with the parametric

 

We have gotten files(supposedly engineering) in from vendors that you could tell were modeled at some point with Rhino/Rhino like modelling. While it is nice to have the ability to pull, and bend the part around like it was made of clay, it can make a real mess of the model from an engineering standpoint. Faces that should be perfectly planar, radiused areas that should be just that, while to the naked eye appear to be are not. And they may need to be. And there may be no apparent or logical reason why someone did not model them that way. But this subtle warping to these areas can create real problems and or make the tooling an absolute nightmare and far more complex and expensive for no reason.

 

So I think this approach is good for conceptual modelling but dangerous for further modelling.

 

However as I mentioned it is also influenced by the product you are actually modelling. What I have mention up until now is for high volume Injection Molding. I also do jewelry work and the slightly distorted goeometry that occurs when hand manipulating surfaces or forms by pulling and bending is perfectly acceptable and can often be a bonus. They like a bit more of a "hand made" look.

 

 

Dont get me wronge Rhino can straight make precice parts like SW or ProE but there is no paramertic history to fall back on to make changes. This means either completely rebuilding parts or at least sections of parts to affect changes. Or as I have been talking about using some sort of manual secondary form of manipulation("freeform"). This can come in the form of: scaling, sretching, bending,twisting, etc. This is where people can get into trouble. You start with some specific geometries and the start manipulatic is freeform style and what do you end up with? This is an almost impossible question to answer because your results may be impossible to predict.

 

 

This is the core of the differences. One set of the results of changes are predictable/calcuable and the other they are not.

 

Example:

Lets say you had a intersection between two parts that was 20mm in diameter and for some reason this needed to be changed to 22 mm.

 

In a parametric modeller: If the part is build robust enough there is a good chance you will be able to just go in and change the radius in the history tree and be done. Maybe a few down stream adjustments......

 

In a non history based modeller with freeform capabilities:

1) Find a way to remodel the area in question to represent the change. This can be difficult and even a complete retracing or your origional steps to create the feature. Also consider other features that may be affected by this change that may even get whiped out in the process.

2) Scale the part until it gives you the radius you want. I should not have to mention what this does to the rest of the part.

 

 

Each have thier strengths and weaknesses.

 

Like I said this depends on what you are doing,

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Guest MikeWied

Being a student and self taught pretty much, in both softwares (Rhino and SW), I like the ease of use, and the option to always go back and change something in SW without having to flip through menus and toolbars. And it seems like with SW it almost knows what you want to do, in Rhino not so much, for example the loft command. In SW I really like the option to make it normal to profile or direction vectored. In Rhino I don't think there is that option, and maybe in Rhino there is that feature, but I haven't found it yet. There little things I like about both. But what I kinda hate about SW is the absolute need for a high-end graphics card to really get the full benefit of Realview. and I really like being able to see a project progress into the real world without having to wait for it render. Atleast in Rhino I can get an idea. I don't know, I would say SW would be your next best bet, and can be obtained through a couple resellers online for cheap, for the student edition. I paid around 140 for a 2 year license with Cosmos, don't know how much Rhino is, I just use the evaluation.

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Guest Neal_Jose

I don't know what types of file formats it exports too, but a free 3D solution out there is Blender. I would look into that and see if it suits your needs or not. Just do a quick Google for it and I'm sure you'll find main site and some review pages.

 

I wouldn't try to write your own 3D application. Any of the good ones out there were not done by a single person. Maya for example had a huge team of developers, even at the very start. It was not 1 person's pet project that turned into something. It was a group's project right from the start.

 

___________

Tommy Bahama 

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