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Guest AutomóvilVerde

Some Of My Sketches

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Guest csven
The sketchy style is okay, but it doesnt look nice at all.

This is probably one of the biggest reasons the profession has so many credibility issues.

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Guest Live Design

a lot of designers actually sketch over their work to make it look more 'scratchy'. it gives a nice feel to it. take the bag sketch above, if that was done with smooth crisp lines it wouldnt have the same emotive feeling to it. All the necessary details are visible and clear and this may be true or not but i think that sketch was meant for the designer themselves, not to show to a client. Its just an idea, drawn out as quickly as possible so csven could get the idea from his head onto paper. The real skill is that the perspective is correct, no matter how smooth or scratchy your lines are without the right form it will always look crap.

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Guest Taro

Yes, perspective is skill.

 

However, I just think that drawing clean is also a good skill to have. If someone can draw really clean, but choose to draw sketchy in some cases, then I think that's fine. But if .. sketchy is all you can do, then really... not enough effort into that area yet.

 

Because clearly, almost all of the people are born to draw sketchy, then they improve and improve to produce cleaner and better sketches.

 

I think designers should sell both ideas and art works.

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In this guy's case (the host of this topic), I don't think it's even a good idea to tell him that sketchy style is aviable and is a good way. Simply because it becomes an excuse to not work for those refined sketches. It is better to work clean, then go back to sketchy, compare to staying sketchy all the time.

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Sorry, I don't know anything about the profession yet, weither sketches are for designers or clients. But as a student right now, the schools wants to see our process, and there must be a really important reason to why they want to see the process.

 

On a side note, people at my school would sometimes look at my really rough skethces, and immediately loses interests. Compare to few of my better ones, which catches their attention for a long time.

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your ketches seem to lean to the right for some reason.

 

you dont want structures that look like they are gonna fall apart at any minute!

 

easy way to fix that is to draw perpendicular lines to the paper.

 

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i strongly disagree with csven also.

 

one thing that really seperates a illustration student and product student is the way you draw and the way you were taught to draw.

 

illustration students - tend to do the more than one line / stroke thing. usually looks like whats above^

 

product students - are able to communicate and indicate the form with only 1 or 2 strokes. these applies not only to straight lines but curved lines too.

 

It really just boils down to practice.

 

Practice practice practice.

 

I cant explain it any other way, you will eventually get the hang of it.

 

 

You should work on it till you can draw from point A to point B in ONE stroke

 

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The sketchy style is okay, but it doesnt look nice at all.

This is probably one of the biggest reasons the profession has so many credibility issues.

 

 

its not about the credibility issue. its presentation issue.

 

You want to bring the Best of YOU to the table.

 

No matter how GREAT your idea is, if someone looks at a sketch and is like 'ew' then he or she is probably not gonna even look through your concepts.

Which sounds unfair.

 

But theres nothing you can do about that, except to just improve whatever skills you have.

 

 

Learning to sketch is the easy part

Learning to come up with great product designs is the hard part.

 

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actually ... the perspective on the bag is wrong.

 

but ill say one thing.

its not a bad sketch, even if its messy.

 

but whats important is that you should be able to draw clean lines first before just being content that you can draw sketchy and stay like that.

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Guest AutomóvilVerde

I'm used to doing the sketchy style, and I do agree with Live Design, it does make it look nice in a certain way. But I really need to be able to use fewer lines, like Taro was saying, just using few lines to make the whole thing. It's also faster that way.

 

One thing I have started to do is sketch the basics with pencil, go over with pen, erase the pencil so it looks clean, then fill in details.

 

Here's one I did like that.

post-27920-1232258084.jpg

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Guest csven
The sketchy style is okay, but it doesnt look nice at all.

This is probably one of the biggest reasons the profession has so many credibility issues.

its not about the credibility issue. its presentation issue.

Thank you for making my point.

 

No matter how GREAT your idea is, if someone looks at a sketch and is like 'ew' then he or she is probably not gonna even look through your concepts.

Truth is, a large percentage of business people can't look at any sketch or marker rendering and understand what they're seeing. It's why presentation models are still made even though you can now spin a 3D image on a computer screen.

 

However, if you're not presenting to business people but to other designers, then you don't need flashy drawings. You just need to get the idea across.

 

actually ... the perspective on the bag is wrong.

Yes. It is. But it doesn't matter. The point of sketching is to design products; not get the drawing hung in a gallery. If drawing ability were the be-all and end-all, Jonathan Ive wouldn't be the most celebrated designer on the planet. And plenty of other celebrity designers would live in obscurity.

 

In any event, I'll let you all continue down this path. It's not like I expect anything to change in the profession. Carry on.

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Guest Taro
However, if you're not presenting to business people but to other designers, then you don't need flashy drawings. You just need to get the idea across.

 

Good drawings will help communicating a lot, doesn't matter if its the client or other designers. Just think if u were presenting to a little kid, would HE understand it? First of all, would HE be interested in the drawing in the first place? Your explanation probably wont be effective, but a nice drawing would first : keep him interested, second: good drawings always explain better than sketchy one.

 

Yes. It is. But it doesn't matter. The point of sketching is to design products; not get the drawing hung in a gallery.

 

a bit of a weird statement there.

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Guest csven
However, if you're not presenting to business people but to other designers, then you don't need flashy drawings. You just need to get the idea across.

 

Good drawings will help communicating a lot, doesn't matter if its the client or other designers. Just think if u were presenting to a little kid, would HE understand it? First of all, would HE be interested in the drawing in the first place? Your explanation probably wont be effective, but a nice drawing would first : keep him interested, second: good drawings always explain better than sketchy one.

I'm not speaking hypothetically. I've been doing this professionally for over 14 years.

 

Yes. It is. But it doesn't matter. The point of sketching is to design products; not get the drawing hung in a gallery.

 

a bit of a weird statement there.

It's only weird if you've not heard it before. I can't take credit for it.

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Guest Buff

I still agree with csven here.

 

you can tidy up a rough sketch of a good design, but you cant turn a good sketch of bad design into anything better.

 

As csven said, we have 3D CAD models and renderings for the WOW factor with business people and STILL they dont get it.

 

Let me offer a recent 'real world' example of mine.

 

I sat down with a client to design him a stove, we sketched, now I checked those sketches.... they are utter crap, singular fluid lines like many advocate, (i've sketched that way since being a child, and my nine year old does the same) but perspective? ...heck, i dont even know what that is ;-)

 

after designing a solution and solving some design problems, I modeled the stove in inventor and held a design review...more sketches (still crap, but with those 'all important singular lines') we made some changes, i modeled and did some renderings...crap ones actually in Hypershot.

 

Guess what, my customer on the strenght of the rendering placed a year's worth of work with me, and he doubled his order with his primary client, found other clients (big international high street names) banging down his door for product.

 

So a prototype was built... guess what? my client customers said "oh, i didn't think it was going to look like that!"

 

Still they liked it, and my client is on target to sell 400,000 units form an inital idea of selling 5,000

 

The tooling is now in production. my client WILL be a millionaire in a years time form CONFIRMED orders

 

Thats what ID ie really about...not some arty sketch, I can get any number of 'two bit' artist to put my rough sketches into a nice presentation if i need it, but few folk i come accross can make client or save clinet millions of pounds, thats my background introducing REAL product to the market place.

 

When i went to uni, i was turned down a palce on ID course, but offerd a mech eng degree course instead.

 

My leactures knew less about real life in industry than I (I was 31 when i first went to uni) and i made several corrections to their hand outs and presentations.

 

I achived a first in mech eng, but still cant draw for toffee, but Ive made dozens of product come to market, and those whom ive worked for are happy with the prfits i have made them, and are much less happy with 'graduates' whos often 'blue sky thinking' and 'tallent' doesnt count for too much in the realm of making a profit and keeping people in employment

 

thats another £0.02... I carry on like this and I'll be upto a full quid by the end of the week :-D

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@Buff

thats totally awesome.

dont get us wrong, sketching style isnt what ID is about.

There are many people i know that still cant draw, but have great concepts.

And there is never a time where a sketching style will better a bad concept.

 

we all know that.

 

Maybe its just me.

But as a person wouldnt you want to be good at the things you do?

I for one, want to become the best at whatever skills i have.

Whether it be sketching, coming up with good concepts, logos, graphics, etc.

I havent gone professional.

But im not learning these things just for the pure benefit of what my clients think.

Its for myself and for improving my own set of skills.

 

Thats just how I see it.

 

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@AutomóvilVerde

@Everyone else

heres the problem i see.

 

by saying that sketchy is ok.

you are pretty much keepin him from improving his sketching technique.

 

if you insist on staying sketchy...

heres a suggestion, make 'sketchy' your style.

by fine tuning it and really making it YOURS

and not just an excuse for not being able to sketch.

 

On that note, you need to understand, implement, and show the basics of sketching:

1- line weight

2- perspective

 

Your perspective isnt too bad

but you need lots of work on your line weight.

 

also all your drawing look FLAT

thats also due to line weight

 

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finally sketches are meant to be done quickly and like csven said to communicate your ideas

 

you need to learn to be able to draw it using pen ONLY.

for a sketch you shouldn't be needing to draw in pencil first > pen overlay > erase pencil.

 

if you were drawing something more detailed and refined then that method would be ok.

 

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what make me the most curious, is that you seem to not want to get better at sketching.

you feel content with your current level of sketching.

 

 

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your recycle bin sketch:

 

pros:

1- good job at callouts

2- recycle logo is good, cuz without it i would have no idea what the page was about

3- perspective is almost there

4- attempt to indicate materials

 

cons:

1- sketches look flat, practice line weight

2- without the logo, the page is nothing but two boxes

3- continue to work on perspective

4- wood doesn't look like that

5- since it is puzzle, you can have a sketch where it shows the two piece apart and how it would look then.

6- two compartments, two different uses, you should try to come up with a label or design that will communicate to the user which box is for which. because there isnt gonna be floating callouts in the real product.

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Guest Buff

Think I should just point out btw, I'm not trying to say you shouldnt try to improve your skills (any skills)

 

I agree also with sketchyd et.al that skills should be improved, I actually am trying to improve my sketching too.

 

But I do think that sketching isn't the most important factor in the ID business

 

[edit]

 

lol, i see you and I where editing/posting at the same time :-D

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Guest AutomóvilVerde

I am trying to get out of the sketchy style, because personally I think less lines look better, and are faster (sometimes). Right now the sketchy style comes naturally, so it's had to break.

 

How do you do line weight with pen without going over the same line multiple times?

 

I am definitely not content with my current level. I need to improve a lot if I want to get into a good school, and eventually job.

 

Ya I know it looks more like stone or something, but it was just for the outline. I wasn't intending do add much detail.

 

I was planning to put the recycling symbol on the recycling compartment, but ended up just labeling them. I don't know how well it would have looked in perspective.

 

Just a question for ID with jobs, do you guys use rulers and french curves?

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Guest csven

As a reminder of what I said:

sketchy way = "search lines" ... because the point of ideation sketching isn't to make a pretty drawing, it's to search for a solution. It's why IDers are paid more money than illustrators.

 

Be as scratchy as you wanna be. ID drawings aren't intended to be pieces of art; they're for making products.

(Note: I didn't say "presentation drawings". I specifically targeted the ideation activity which is ... supposedly ... hopefully ... what differentiates Industrial Design from Graphic Design/Illustration/Talented Bear.)

 

*

 

In response to:

what make me the most curious, is that you seem to not want to get better at sketching.

you feel content with your current level of sketching.

The comment to which I was most reacting was this one:

Buy a small triangle and small french curve you can keep with you in your notebook

Here's a reminder of what I wrote in response:

The more he draws the more fluid he'll become. But to tell him to go out and buy a French curve instead of developing that fluidity is something I wouldn't do.
Is buying templates the way to get better at sketching or is it a way to make the sketch look nicer?

 

Who's advocating mediocrity? The person suggesting crutches or the person suggesting he keep at it ... but keeping in mind the purpose of the effort?

 

*

 

When I called this out:

The sketchy style is okay, but it doesnt look nice at all.

This is probably one of the biggest reasons the profession has so many credibility issues.

I was addressing the core issue: the focus on this forum - and in many schools - is on how nice the sketches are instead of how they're used in the process of solving design problems.

 

btw, let's keep the thread starter's other discussions in mind:

 

"Grades?" - http://www.productdesignforums.com/index.php?showtopic=10210

"High School Classes?" - http://www.productdesignforums.com/index.php?showtopic=10236

 

In one of them I felt compelled to say:

Don't settle for mediocrity in anything.

I'm sensing a pattern. Sadly, it's not a new trend; this approach to the profession - avoiding difficult left-brain classes (calculus, etc) and relying on templates/software - is now standard.

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Guest csven
How do you do line weight with pen without going over the same line multiple times?
You don't.

 

Just a question for ID with jobs, do you guys use rulers and french curves?
Almost never during the ideation phase. There's rarely time for that sort of stuff. If I do, it's almost always a straight edge. For me, ship curves and the like are mostly for presentation renders (i.e. design illustrations) which are increasingly unwanted.

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